[B-Greek] TOIOUTOS

Mark Lightman lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Thu Jun 18 09:49:49 EDT 2009


Actually, Charles, I think I misread your question.  You are
looking for the opposite, where the referent is to things like
the thing mentioned but not to the thing itself, right?  That might also
be hard to find, but not impossible.  Let me look around.
 
Mark L

--- On Thu, 6/18/09, Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] TOIOUTOS
To: "B Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>, "Charles Johnson" <cpj5117 at gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 7:40 AM


I would think TOIOUTOS always includes the thing mentioned
and things like the thing mentioned.  Otherwise something
like hOMOIOS would be used.  But it would be fun to
look for examples and try to prove that only the thing mentioned
is in mind.
 
<If someone said, "I would like to
marry someone like my sister," we 
would naturally infer that he means
someone resembling his sister, but not her.>
 
Unless he was an Egyptian king.
 
Mark L. 

--- On Thu, 6/18/09, Charles Johnson <cpj5117 at gmail.com> wrote:


From: Charles Johnson <cpj5117 at gmail.com>
Subject: [B-Greek] TOIOUTOS
To: "B Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 7:11 AM


I am wrestling with the meaning of the pronoun TOIOUTOS. Louw-Nida gives as
one definition "like that." The word "like," though, if taken to mean
"similar to" or "resembling," points also to unlikeness. It can function to
exclude the first person from the class. If someone said, "I would like to
marry someone like my sister," we would naturally infer that he means
someone resembling his sister, but not her. So, the class is PEOPLE
RESEMBLING SISTER - SISTER.  However, I had been under the impression that
TOIOUTOS functioned by specifying a class. For example, in Acts 22:22, we
have AIRE APO THS GHS TOV TOIOUTON, where the primary referent is Paul. So,
the class would be PEOPLE RESEMBLING PAUL + PAUL. At other times, the class
can be specified more ideally, such as in John 4:23 -  hO PATHR TOIOUTOUS
ZHTEI TOUS PROSKUNOUNTOUS AUTON. Here an ideal referent is used, so I
suppose the class is just PEOPLE WHO WILL WORSHIP IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH.

So, is there ever a time where TOIOUTOUS is used exclusively, as in the
sister example?
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