[B-Greek] the Top Ten Responses to George S’s theory that that the subject of KALESANTOS in Gal 1:6 is TO EUAGGELION and not hO QEOS (Was Galatians 1:6-7

Mark Lightman lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Fri Jun 12 13:32:20 EDT 2009

--- On Wed, 6/10/09, George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com> wrote:

<5.   What does the object of METATIQHMI in the middle,
 the end, the beginning or the active or passive have to do
 with the price of eggs in Outer Mongolia?>
KALESANTOS is the object of METATIQHMAI.  If you think
the subject of KALESANTOS is a thing (gospel) not a person
(God,) you would do well to see how often METATIQHMAI APO
plus the gen takes a thing, how often a person.  Again, all the
examples I saw were things.  Since your theory is interesting on
the one hand and utterly devoid of support on the other hand, I
would think it would be worth it for you to look this up.  I agree
that all things being equal, in "APO X EIS Y," if Y is a thing, and X is unknown,
we could assume that X is a thing.  But it's your crack pot theory.
You should do the work.  Maybe you could get to it after you finish
all 26 volumes of the Warren Report.  :)
<4.   What's so funny about the way it looks?  And what has its appearance to do with whether or not it is correct?>
Just that participles of active, transitive verbs with neuter nouns still stand out because they are relatively rare.  When you do see it, they are usually persons
(DAIMONION, TEKNON, etc. ) But your are right that whether a phrase appears
funny to me does not carry much weight here.  It's just that we don't 
do "Top Nine Lists" on b-greek.
Mark L. 

From: Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
To: Charles Johnson <cpj5117 at gmail.com>; B Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>; George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 8:53:54 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] the Top Ten Responses to George S’s theory that that the subject of KALESANTOS in Gal 1:6 is TO EUAGGELION and not hO QEOS (Was Galatians 1:6-7

10.   Have you been reading the Greek New Testament 
or smoking it? 
9. Γεωργε, ποιον σε επος φυγεν ερκος οδοντων!  
ODONTWN!) Od. 5:23 
8 . Gospels don’t call.  In the NT TO EUAGGELION                                             
 is almost never the subject of a verb, and never the subject 
 of an active transitive verb.  Not that this is conclusive proof 
against your theory, since Paul is quite capable in this state of 
 using a rare construction.  But Donald Cobb showed without 
much trouble that God is the obvious unexpressed subject of 
 KALEW and why.  
7. If Ockham’s Razor were a law, you would be serving 25 to life. 
6. In fact O QEOS is mentioned in v. 4.  Clearly it is picked up as 
the subject in our verse. 
5. It’s probably just a coincidence, but it is true that in all 
 the examples given by BDAG and LSJ, the object of 
METATIQHMI in the middle are things, not people.  
 If you could show that this verb never takes a person 
as its object I would move your theory from absolutely 
 impossible to virtually impossible.  Have you done a 
word study on METATIQHMAI? 
4. “The Calling Gospel?”  TO EUAGGELION 
 TO KALESON.  It just looks funny in both 
 English and Greek.  Come on, George, TIS 
3. I would not call your theory nutty, but how DO you 
 say “straight jacket” in koine? 
2. I think if Paul had meant to say that the Gospel 
calls us he would have simply moved EUAGGELION 
 up in the sentence to make it clear.  Your interpretation 
is clever to be sure.  We all know that the Truth is out 
 there.  But it is rarely out there that far. 
And the number one response to George S’s 
 theory that the subject of KALESANTOS in 
 Gal 1:6 is TO EUAGGELION and not hO QEOS: 
1. Actually, I’m really glad that George made this 
 suggestion.  We get these often on B-Greek, usually 
 from beginners.  They read the Greek with fresh eyes 
 and they think they see things that everyone else misses. 
  Usually they are wrong.  Well, ALWAYS they are wrong, 
 but it’s fun to read their suggestions and entertain them 
for a while.  Hmm, you think, that’s something I hadn’t 
thought of before.  I think we should all encourage each 
other to share these ideas, however crazy they may appear, 
 because they are fun, and you never know.  But George 
 is no beginner.  He has earned a certain credibility by over 
the years patiently answering many questions from IDIWTAI, 
not to mention from idiots, like myself.  He knows his Greek NT. 
  This is the first patently absurd thing he has ever said on the list. 
  And when I say “patently absurd” I mean that with all due respect.  
 And you know something, I find his idea, as insane as it is, oddly 
compelling.  I think Paul COULD conceive of a Gospel as calling us. 
  I thank George for putting it out there, and it IS that, way the heck 
out there, but I like it. 
Mark L.        

--- On Wed, 6/10/09, George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Galatians 1:6-7
To: "Charles Johnson" <cpj5117 at gmail.com>, "B Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Wednesday, June 10, 2009, 12:23 AM

6Θαυμάζω ὅτι οὕτως ταχέως μετατίθεσθε ἀπὸ τοῦ καλέσαντος ὑμᾶς ἐν χάριτι [Χριστοῦ]εἰς ἕτερον εὐαγγέλιον, 7ὃ οὐκ ἔστιν ἄλλο, εἰ μή τινές εἰσιν οἱ ταράσσοντες ὑμᾶς καὶ θέλοντες μεταστρέψαι τὸ εὐαγγέλιον τοῦ Χριστοῦ.  

I have a slightly different take on this from the normal. It is usual to supply the subject here as being [in the AV tradition] God.  Therefore καλέσαντος KALESANTOS is generally construed as a aor masc gen sg part, but it could also be a aor neuter gen sg part.  In that case, what would be the subject?  The neut noun εὐαγγέλιον EUAGGELION !  Although one must also understand τοῦ εὐαγγελίου TOU EUAGGELIOU in the gen abs as one must understand τοῦ θεοῦ TOU QEOU in the usual understanding of the passage, the word is already right there to be brought to mind.  Also, εἰ μή might be understood after the manner of the English "unless" which is really very similar to "except."   The sense would then be that he is surprised that they are forsaking the GOSPEL WHICH CALLED them into Christ's favor for another gospel.  He is surprised UNLESS some persons are disturbing them by trying to
alter the gospel itself.  

I've attempted to avoid coming out and giving an actual translation though I realize that it is very close to being one. Hopefully this will make some sense.

… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.

- Jan Hus

From: Charles Johnson <cpj5117 at gmail.com>
To: B Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 3:22:10 PM
Subject: [B-Greek] Galatians 1:6-7

I have a question about how certain clauses are connected in Galatians
1:6-7. I'm looking particularly at the clause in v.7 beginning with ει μη.
Many versions seem to render it as a subordinate clause under ο ουκ εστιν
αλλο. Leedy's NT diagrams in Bibleworks agree. I see that several versions
indicate that relationship and some others appear to be more ambiguous. So,
understanding that I'm probably wrong, I thought I would propose an
alternate solution.

I cannot make good logical sense out of "which is not another [gospel],
except there are some who trouble you...." I further struggle with the idea
of placing a subordinate clause under what appears to be a parenthetical
statement. Rather, would it be possible to connect the ει μη back to θαυμαζω
in v. 6? The distinctive force of ει μη as "except" makes good sense in this
arrangement. The paraphrase would be as follows:

"I [would be] amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by
the grace of Christ for a different gospel (not that there is another),
except [I know] there are some who trouble you...."

The words in brackets are my amplifications. In other words, Paul is saying
he would be amazed except that he knows about this dangerous threat. Using
the naked indicative in the main clause highlights his amazement. Is my idea
a possibility?
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