[B-Greek] PETROS as a 1st century common noun?
George F Somsel
gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Sat Jun 6 12:02:49 EDT 2009
τοῦ εἰσελθεῖν εἰς τὰς τρώγλας τῆς στερεᾶς πέτρας καὶ εἰς τὰς σχισμὰς τῶν πετρῶν ἀπὸ προσώπου τοῦ φόβου κυρίου καὶ ἀπὸ τῆς δόξης τῆς ἰσχύος αὐτοῦ, ὅταν ἀναστῇ θραῦσαι τὴν γῆν.
Septuaginta : With morphology. 1996, c1979 (Is 2:21). Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft.
TOU EISELQEIN EIS TAS TRWGLAS THS STEREAS PETRAS KAI EIS TAS SXISMAS TWN PETRWN APO PROSWPOU TOU FOBOU KURIOU KAI APO THS DOCHS THS ISXUOS AUTOU, hOTAN ANASTHi QRAUSAI THN GHN.
What seems to be taking place in Is 2.21 is that the translator is attempting to make some small distinction in his translation in order to reflect the difference in the Hebrew. As everyone probably is aware, but which I will nevertheless mention lest someone not know, Hebrew poetry uses a form of parallelism in which two stichs are synonymous, nearly synonymous, or contrastive. It is not simply πέτρας PETRAS in the first instance but στερεᾶς πέτρας STEREAS PETRAS reflecting בְּנִקְרוֹת הַצֻּרִים (where the בְּ is reproduced in Greek by εἰς). If you don't read Hebrew, don't worry about it -- simply compare the forms of the letters to see that they are different from the following. In the following stich where πετρῶν appears it is σχισμὰς τῶν πετρῶν SXISMAS TWN PETRWN reflecting וּבִסְעִפֵי הַסְּלָעִים (with וּ being the conjunction and again
being the בִ preposition). What we have therefore is not really a native distinction in the Greek but rather an attempt to reflect the distinction in the Hebrew. In other words TRANSLATION GREEK.
ἡ παιγνία σου ἐνεχείρησέν σοι, ἰταμία καρδίας σου κατέλυσεν τρυμαλιὰς πετρῶν, συνέλαβεν ἰσχὺν βουνοῦ ὑψηλοῦ, ὅτι ὕψωσεν ὥσπερ ἀετὸς νοσσιὰν αὐτοῦ, ἐκεῖθεν καθελῶ σε.
… search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.
- Jan Hus
From: Charles Johnson <cpj5117 at gmail.com>
To: Randall Buth <randallbuth at gmail.com>
Cc: B Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>; George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 6, 2009 7:50:37 AM
Subject: Re: PETROS as a 1st century common noun?
Does the distinction of meaning visible in Plutarch hold for the LXX and NT? In Isaiah 2:21 PETROS and PETRA are both used, in what appears to me to refer to the same thing. In Jer. 30:10 PETRWN seems to refer to a mountain or a cliff. Also, in Rom. 9:33, PETRAN SKANDALOU refers to a rock that you can trip over (right?). So, that wouldn't be bedrock, would it? Also, in 1 Pet. 2:8, PETRA occurs parallel to LIQOS.
On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 4:45 AM, Randall Buth <randallbuth at gmail.com> wrote:
>After looking through the LXX and NT, I wonder what happened to the noun
PETROS. It occurs in some in the LXX, and appears to be virtually synonymous
with the more common PETRA. In the NT, it doesn't appear to be used at all
except as the proper name Peter. It seems to have been replaced by LIQOS.
Did PETROS pass out of existence as a common noun by the first century, and
if so, should we understand the name Peter to be a masculinization of PETRA?>
George mentioned 2xx in Philo.
In addition, with 7 xx in Josephus and 21 in Plutarch one can only say
is less common than LIQOS. In any case, PETROS was still in use in Greek.
In Plutarch a PETROS can be big enough to be lifted by two hands by a bald
old man, though is still to be distinguished from 'bedrock, large rock' petra.
More importantly, PETROS is attested as a name פטרוס a couple times in HEBREW
literature referring to early (2nd century and 2-3 CE) people. Surely
that is of interest,
especially if you assume that the name was not borrowed from the Christians.
Randall Buth, PhD
randallbuth at gmail.com
Biblical Language Center
Learn Easily - Progress Further - Remember for Life
Septuaginta : With morphology. 1996, c1979 (Je 30:10). Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft.
hH PAIGNIA SOU ENEXEIRHSEN SOI, ITAMIA KARDIAS SOU KATELUSEN TRUMALIAS PETRWN, SUNELABEN ISXUN BOUNOU hUYHLOU, hOTI hUYWSEN hWSPER AETOS NOSSIAN AUTOU, EKEIQEN KAQELW SE.
Here πετρῶν PETRWN reflects the second Hebrew term (סְעִפֵי) in the Isaiah passage.
Yes, PETRAN SKANDALOU would be something other than a cliff or bedrock. I wouldn't therefore conclude that the fem form must signify simply a piece of rock rather than bedrock since, as BDAG notes, it can be used in either sense -- bedrock or piece of rock. Note the usage in Mt 27.60
καὶ ἔθηκεν αὐτὸ ἐν τῷ καινῷ αὐτοῦ μνημείῳ ὃ ἐλατόμησεν ἐν τῇ πέτρᾳ καὶ προσκυλίσας λίθον μέγαν τῇ θύρᾳ τοῦ μνημείου ἀπῆλθεν.
KAI EQHKEN AUTO EN TWi KAINWi AUTOU MNHMEIWi hO ELATOMHSEN EN THi PETRAi KAI PROSKULISAS LIQON MEGAN THi QURAi TOU MNHMEIOU APHLQEN.
1 Pet 2.8
καὶ λίθος προσκόμματος καὶ πέτρα σκανδάλου·οἳ προσκόπτουσιν τῷ λόγῳ ἀπειθοῦντες εἰς ὃ καὶ ἐτέθησαν.
KAI LIQOS PROSKOMATOS KAI PETRA SKANDALOU hOI PROSKOPTOUSIN TWi LOGWi APEIQOUNTES EIS hO KAI ETEQHSAN.
Yes, the two are used synonymously reflecting the Hebrew poetic structure mentioned above. Welcome to the wonderful world of language where there are a myriad ways in which something may be stated.
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