[B-Greek] GNT Word List - All inflections with Strongs

Mark Lightman lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Thu Jun 4 08:55:21 EDT 2009

Louis S. wrote: 
 <[We} will surely wonder why
no one answered the question...Members on 
the list should be able to separate a technical
 request from a learning methodology>
This type of thing happens often on b-Greek, not
that it is a bad thing.  A while back someone asked
an innocuous question about a grammar resource
and instead of getting an answer he was treated to
a slew of e-treatises on the limits of learning Greek
through Grammar.  None of this bothers me.  I thought
Randall's non-answer was more interesting than any
answer that could be given, and I for one liked the 
3-Dog Night video.  But Loius is right, members should
follow up to make sure the question was answered and
give an answer, especially if I am the one to ask the
question. Ha ha.
As far as Strong goes, it's funny.  I have never seen a
Strong's, I don't really know what he did or who he is
and I'm sure he was a good guy and I think any
resource can have value. But it's true that he unfortunately
is linked even in my very democratic with a small d 
mind with good intentioned folks who let us just say
have not yet learned that if you are going to use "Strong's"
and "the Greek really says" in the same sentence you 
have to be REALLY humble.  We all do, though, have
to be really humble.  The prejudice against any mention of
Strong's is just that, and needs to be acknowledged, by me anyhow.  
Mark L.   

--- On Wed, 6/3/09, Louis Sorenson <llsorenson at hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Louis Sorenson <llsorenson at hotmail.com>
Subject: [B-Greek] GNT Word List - All inflections with Strongs
To: "B-Greek List mail to all" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Wednesday, June 3, 2009, 9:53 PM

A request for a database of the NT linked to Strongs has only gotten replies of the following:
1) Don't rely on Strong's Lemma translations (I agree)
2) Using a Database is the the way to learn Greek (I agree)
3) You need to participate in a class (I agree)

But, those who do programming and use databases as part of their personal 'fabric of life' 
will surely wonder why no one answered the question.  The GNT and Tischendorf NT databases
are both text files.  The MorphGNT is only in Greek Unicode. The Tischendorf NT has two versions,
Betacode and Greek Unicode; in addition, each book of the Tischendorf NT is in a text-based
book-by-book format.  The file also does not use adequate delimiters for the Strong/Friberg
lemma fields. I found it incredibly difficult to get each of the lemma fields into the correct field. 
The Tischendorf database is not in a normalized format. The GNT database
does not give Strong numbers. (Neither gives links to Strongs definitions.) The similar Tischendorf
database gives both Strong lemmas and Friberg lemmas. There are some minor differences between Strong
and Friberg, mostly dealing with words that may come from multiple words, foreign words, etc.
The Tischendorf files were not designed to be imported and modified/maniupulated 
by a database-based program. 

Over the last few years, I have imported and transformed the GNT and Tischendorf files into 
the 'CCAT-tauber-morphgnt-v5_08-utf8' and  'tblTischendorfBetaAndGreek' tables respectively.   
The tables are in a Microsoft Access Database. Greek sort keys, Greek unicode, Betacode, 
have been added to the tables of each. My database also includes betacode/unicode functions
for those who are technically savvy, to further modify the database. I have taken each book
of the Tischendorf NT and imported them into a single NT Table. My interests in other areas
have limited my energies toward this NT database. 

There are still some differences in lemma between the two tables (GNT and Tischendorf). The 
GNT is linked to the Tischendorf Strong lemmas (about 600 GNT lemmas are missing Strongs numbers). 
I will seek to update this missing data over time. 

The file called NTDatabase3 can be found at http://www.letsreadgreek.org/resources/ (browse the folder).
The fileis called NTDatabase3.mdb .  It does not take a person who is fluent in reading ancient Greek
to provide web applicaitons which use the Greek text. There may be many new and cutting-edge 
web sites written by those non-academic but linguistically interested and sophisicated b-greek
members. Members on the list should be able to separate a technical request from a learning methodology
request. One wonders how 'fluent' are any propreietor of any of the online Greek NT sites.

Louis Sorenson

Allen wrote...................

>Message: 2
>Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 23:10:18 GMT
>From: "allen.rhoades at juno.com" <allen.rhoades at juno.com>
>Subject: [B-Greek] GNT Word List - All inflections with Strongs
>To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>Message-ID: <20090602.191018.22240.0 at webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hello all,
I'm just a student of Greek, but I currently speak computerese much easier.
I've downloaded the non-copyrighted versions of the GNT and done a word list and count.
However, to make it truly productive for study I need to add the Strongs numbers
to the 17000+ various inflected words. 

I did the first five hundred in a few hours to see that it is a time consuming process. 
Do you know of any non-copyright e-versions to download of Strongs that has
the different inflections or maybe the verse listings?


>Message: 2
>Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 23:10:18 GMT
>From: "allen.rhoades at juno.com" <allen.rhoades at juno.com>
>Subject: [B-Greek] GNT Word List - All inflections with Strongs
>To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>Message-ID: <20090602.191018.22240.0 at webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

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