[B-Greek] Special use of the dative James 4:17
stancu at mail.dnttm.ro
Thu Nov 20 14:38:15 EST 2008
It seems to me it is time to devise a new definition: what about "dative of assignment" or "dative of labelling"? Compare with expressions like these: ATIMIA AUTWi ESTIN (1Co 11:14), or AISXRON GAR ESTIN GUNAIKI (1Co 14:35).
One might think I am joking - which is partially true - but what I'd like to point out is that, instead of debating whether a dative of possession is used or one of respect or advantage/disadvantage etc., - which will ultimately lead to forging such definitions as, perhaps, "dative of believing" when we explain PISTEUW SOI or "dative of accompaniment" for AKOLUQETW MOI or "genitive of listening" for AKOUONTES AUTOU - we should better use the simple term "Dative" and then explain the given situation in more than one or two words. Such method would help keeping one somewhat more flexible when judging things like this and other things in general.
From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Carl Conrad
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 2:04 AM
To: Webb Mealy
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Special use of the dative James 4:17
On Nov 20, 2008, at 11:03 AM, Webb Mealy wrote:
> I'd call it a dative of respect or relation, and English it as "it's
> sin for
> him", making hAMARTIA a predicate nom. It's sin in his regard, or
> it's sin
> in relation to him. James's assumption is that the thing not done is
> not sin
> in relation to the person who *does not* know the good thing that
> should be
> done and fails to do it. In relation to that person the "not doing"
> is not
If hAMARTIA is a predicate noun, then what (on earth) is the subject
of ESTIN? It cannot be KALON POIEIN because that is complementary to
EIDOTI? The "It" in your English version is an expletive that doesn't
represent anything in the Greek.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Carl Conrad
> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 6:10 AM
> To: Mark Cain
> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Special use of the dative James 4:17
> On Nov 20, 2008, at 8:02 AM, Mark Cain wrote:
>> Dative of disadvantage?
>> EIDOTI OUN KALON POIEIN KAI MH POIOUNTI hAMARTIA AUTW ESTIN James
>> I was discussing this passage with a friend the other day and his
>> take on this passage is that "hAMARTIA AUTW ESTIN" uses not a true
>> dative in the sense of the indirect object, but a dative of
>> advantage - disadvantage. I wasn't sure and had to do some research
>> -- but it seems that the dative of dis/advantage occurs mostly
>> around verbs of buying, selling, depriving and motion.
>> What do you think? Is this a special use of the dative, or is it
>> simple the indirect object? Is there a general grammatical rule for
>> the use of EIMI + dative?
> I think I'd call it a dative of possession (and I'd call that a true
> dative rather than a locative or instrumental dative): "A sin is his
> (belongs/accrues to him) who knows how to do good and doesn't do it."
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