[B-Greek] EK TOU KOSMOU from the world, or of the world.
kline_dekooning at earthlink.net
Wed Nov 12 16:45:58 EST 2008
On Nov 11, 2008, at 8:20 PM, Oun Kwon wrote:
> in Jn 15:19 we read:
> (a) EI *EK TOU KOSMOU* HTE
> hO KOSMOS AN TO IDION EFILEI
> (b) OTI DE *EK TOU KOSMOU* *OUK* ESTE
> (c) ALL EGW EXELEXAMHN UMAS *EK TOU KOSMOU*
> DIA TOUTO MISEI UMAS hO KOSMOS
> Three occurrences of EK TOU KOSMOU in this verse. The first two are
> in the
> form of 'to be EK TOU KOSMOU (of the world; belonging to the world)'.
> While the last one is in the form of 'to chose EK TOU KOSMOU' (out
> of the
> English translations of the phrase in (a) & (b) read as '*of the
> (in KJV and many), or '*belonging to the world*' (in NET and
> many). ALT
> put these as *"from the world*'. Most translates (c) '*out of the
> As far as I can hear in English, 'of' and 'out of' are opposite in
> sense. If
> they are *not *'of the world', then should mean they are* *'out of the
> world' = 'from the world".
> It seems strange to me that the same Greek phrase EK TOU KOSMOU be
> understood somehow in two opposite senses. Is it because of different
> verbal phrases (with 'be' and with 'do')? The first two are in the
> form of
> 'to be EK TOU KOSMOU (of the world; belonging to the world)', while
> the last
> one is in the form of 'to chose EK TOU KOSMOU' (out of the world).
John (the author of the Gospel) plays games with words. No disrespect
for our author, just a recognition that he intentionally uses words
and phrases which are semantically ambiguous and he plays on this
ambiguity. There are several layers semantic ambiguity here. KOSMOS in
John is ambiguous. It isn't always evil. Sometimes it is the created
order. Other times it is the system of organized personal opposition
to The Creator.
The genitive case is ambiguous. EK + genitive is ambiguous. Carl has
repeatedly stressed that attempts to understand the greek genitive
which focus on English translation are doomed to failure. Lets look at
some texts from John and 1John.
JOHN 8:23 KAI ELEGEN AUTOIS: hUMEIS EK TWN KATW ESTE, EGW EK TWN ANW
EIMI: hUMEIS EK TOUTOU TOU KOSMOU ESTE, EGW OUK EIMI EK TOU KOSMOU
In JOHN 8:23 we have a parallel construction that defines EK TOUTOU
JOHN 13:1 PRO DE THS hEORTHS TOU PASCA EIDWS hO IHSOUS hOTI HLQEN
AUTOU hH hWRA hINA METABHi EK TOU KOSMOU TOUTOU PROS TON PATERA,
AGAPHSAS TOUS IDIOUS TOUS EN TWi KOSMWi EIS TELOS HGAPHSEN AUTOUS.
In JOHN 13:1, hO IHSOUS is the subject (anaphoric) of METABHi with the
two adverbials EK TOU KOSMOU TOUTOU and PROS TON PATERA. Obviously EK
TOU KOSMOU TOUTOU here cannot mean what EK TOUTOU TOU KOSMOU means in
8:23. Furthermore, John tells us that hO IHSOUS ... AGAPHSAS TOUS
IDIOUS TOUS EN TWi KOSMWi. Note the significance of TOUS IDIOUS.
JOHN 15:19 EI EK TOU KOSMOU HTE, hO KOSMOS AN TO IDION EFILEI: hOTI DE
EK TOU KOSMOU OUK ESTE, ALL EGW EXELEXAMHN hUMAS EK TOU KOSMOU, DIA
TOUTO MISEI hUMAS hO KOSMOS.
All we need to do here is apply what we have learned by looking at
8:23 and 13:1.
JOHN 17:6 EFANERWSA SOU TO ONOMA TOIS ANQRWPOIS hOUS EDWKAS MOI EK TOU
KOSMOU. SOI HSAN KAMOI AUTOUS EDWKAS KAI TON LOGON SOU TETHRHKAN.
Here we see EK TOU KOSMOU used in a similar manner to 15:19 ALL EGW
EXELEXAMHN hUMAS EK TOU KOSMOU.
JOHN 17:14 EGW DEDWKA AUTOIS TON LOGON SOU KAI hO KOSMOS EMISHSEN
AUTOUS, hOTI OUK EISIN EK TOU KOSMOU KAQWS EGW OUK EIMI EK TOU
KOSMOU. 15 OUK ERWTW hINA ARHiS AUTOUS EK TOU KOSMOU, ALL hINA
THRHSHiS AUTOUS EK TOU PONHROU. 16 EK TOU KOSMOU OUK EISIN KAQWS EGW
OUK EIMI EK TOU KOSMOU.
Here we have EK TOU KOSMOU used as it is in 8:23 hOTI OUK EISIN EK
TOU KOSMOU and then used in a different sense in OUK ERWTW hINA ARHiS
AUTOUS EK TOU KOSMOU, then back again to the other use in EK TOU
KOSMOU OUK EISIN KAQWS EGW OUK EIMI EK TOU KOSMOU, an example of
John's word play.
JOHN 18:36 APEKRIQH IHSOUS: hH BASILEIA hH EMH OUK ESTIN EK TOU KOSMOU
TOUTOU: EI EK TOU KOSMOU TOUTOU HN hH BASILEIA hH EMH, hOI hUPHRETAI
hOI EMOI HGWNIZONTO [AN] hINA MH PARADOQW TOIS IOUDAIOIS: NUN DE hH
BASILEIA hH EMH OUK ESTIN ENTEUQEN.
This text is more difficult. I am not sure if EK TOU KOSMOU TOUTOU
here has a strong negative connotation or not. I think to equate this
with 8:23 hUMEIS EK TOUTOU TOU KOSMOU ESTE and JOHN 15:19a EI EK TOU
KOSMOU HTE might be bit misleading. I would suggest that there is a
strong semantic overlap with 8:23 and 15:19a but not semantic
identity. I could be wrong.
I'll leave the two from First John for others.
1JOHN 2:16 hOTI PAN TO EN TWi KOSMWi, hH EPIQUMIA THS SARKOS KAI hH
EPIQUMIA TWN OFQALMWN KAI hH ALAZONEIA TOU BIOU, OUK ESTIN EK TOU
PATROS ALL EK TOU KOSMOU ESTIN.
1JOHN 4:5 AUTOI EK TOU KOSMOU EISIN, DIA TOUTO EK TOU KOSMOU LALOUSIN
KAI hO KOSMOS AUTWN AKOUEI.
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