[B-Greek] LXX Genesis 1:2 - tohu as AORATOS

Albert Pietersma albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
Wed May 28 17:40:09 EDT 2008


On May 28, 2008, at 5:24 PM, Bryant J. Williams III wrote:

> Dear Al,
>
> It may be useful to include the two other passages where the entire  
> Hebrew
> phrase of "tohu wabohu" occurs. They are Isa 34:11 and Jer. 4:23  
> along with Job
> 26:7. Regarding Gen 1:2,I would also think that there is a  
> deliberate PUN on the
> sound with "tehom." Thus, "tohu...tehom." This gives the idea of  
> total and
> complete "nothingness" and the corresponding idea of "ex nihilo."
To be sure if the question were about the meaning of tohu wabohu or  
on how it is dealt with in the LXX, the other passages become of  
interest. I took the question to be about AORATOS in Gen 1:2, and I  
don't think that corresponds to ex nihilo.
Al
>
> TWOT, Vol. II, pp. 964-965, #2494"tohu," by Ronald Yongblood, gives  
> an extended
> discussion on Job 26:7 and Gen 1:2. I find it interesting the idea of
> "nothingness, invisible" seems to be the intended idea behind  
> "without form and
> void." Thus, it could be construed as hendiadys or as another way  
> of outlining
> the rest of the passage in which "without form" is explained in by  
> the first
> three days giving the heavens and earth "form;" while "void" is  
> explained in the
> last three days of creation filling that "form" (See discussion in  
> TWOT; I am
> undecided).
>
> Job 26:7 LXX, "EKTEINWN BOREAN EP' OUDEN, KREMAZWN GHN EPI OUDENOS."
>
> Isaiah 34:11 LXX, "KAI EPIBLHQHSETAI EP' AUTHN SPARTION GEWMETRIAS  
> ERHMOU, KAI
> ONOKENTAUROI OKKSOUSIN EN AUTH;"
>
> Jeremiah 4:23 LXX, "KAI EIS TON OURANON, KAI OUK hHN TO FWTA AUTO."
>
> The above passages do not use AORATOS at all for "tohu."
>
> AORATOS is found Romans 1:20; I Corinthians 1:15; Colossians  
> 1:15-16 (parallel
> with EN TOIS OURANOIS KAI EPI THS GHS); I Timothy 1:17; and Hebrews  
> 11:27 with
> the emphasis on the "invisible; that which cannot be seen."
>
> En Xristwi,
>
> Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Albert Pietersma" <albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca>
> To: "Carl Conrad" <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
> Cc: "Eric S. Weiss" <papaweiss1 at yahoo.com>; "'b-greek'"
> <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 9:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] LXX Genesis 1:2 - tohu as AORATOS
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>> Jerry Reimer <Jerry at lsm.org> wrote:
>>>  Seems illogical that actual invisibility could be meant by AORATOS
>>> although
>>> the adjective does contain this as one of its meanings. Undefined,
>>> unrecognizable seems better here. Appears to a ballpark equivalent
>>> for
>>> Hebrew underneath and that whatever the meaning of the Hebrew
>>> vorlage is (I
>>> am not knowledgeable as to its meaning) should be what defines the
>>> LXX
>>> rendering rather than either the etymology of the Greek adjective or
>>> even
>>> its usual literal meaning. Is this an example of Hebrew Greek?
> Are you thus suggesting that the Greek word be assigned the sense of
> its Hebrew counterpart? I doubt that this is viable lexicography.
> Moreover, wouldn't such a procedure logically make translating
> senseless?
> I should think one might better assume that a Greek word in the LXX
> has the same sense it has in standard usageuntil proven otherwise.
> Al
>>>
>>> Jerry Reimer
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Eric S. Weiss
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
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>>> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>>
>>
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
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>
>
> Albert Pietersma PhD
> 21 Cross Street,
> Weston ON Canada M9N 2B8
> Email: albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
> Homepage: http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~pietersm
>
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Albert Pietersma PhD
21 Cross Street,
Weston ON Canada M9N 2B8
Email: albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
Homepage: http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~pietersm




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