[B-Greek] APEQANOMEN THi

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Sun May 18 12:49:52 EDT 2008


7ὁ γὰρ ἀποθανὼν δεδικαίωται ἀπὸ τῆς ἁμαρτίας.
7The first enthymeme ends with a gnomic saying about the status of one who has died through co-crucifixion with Christ. The formulation of ὁ ἀποθανών(“he who died”) is again generic and refers to everyone who has died.147 It is possible that Paul has adapted an early version of rabbinic sayings such as “when a man is dead he is freed from fulfilling the law”148 
__________
147 In contrast, Conleth Kearns, “The Interpretation of Romans 6, 7, ” SPCIC1 (1963) 303–7, suggests that “the one who died” is Christ, but this decontextualizes v. 7* and results in the odd notion that the process of making righteous pertains to Christ rather than to believers.
148 Str-B, 3.232, citing b.Šabb.151b Baraita; a citation is proposed by Karl Georg Kuhn, “Röm 6, 7: ὁ γὰρ ἀποθανὼν δεδικαίωται ἀπὸ τῆς ἁμαρτίας,” ZNW30 (1931) 305–10, but decisively criticized by Cranfield, 1:310–11.
Jewett, R., Kotansky, R. D., & Epp, E. J. (2006). Romans : A commentary. Hermeneia--a critical and historical commentary on the Bible (404). Minneapolis: Fortress Press.
It would appear that the dative is simply a dative of respect as is indicated by Paul's further statement
Ἢ ἀγνοεῖτε, ἀδελφοί, γινώσκουσιν γὰρ νόμον λαλῶ, ὅτι ὁ νόμος κυριεύει τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐφʼ ὅσον χρόνον ζῇ; 
H AGNOEITE, ADELFOI, GINWSKOUSIN GAR NOMON LALW, hOTI hO NOMOS KURIEUEI TOU ANQRWPOU EP' hOSON XRONON ZHi?
 george
gfsomsel


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________



----- Original Message ----
From: John Wilking <jcwilking at yahoo.com>
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 4:35:57 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] APEQANOMEN THi




--- On Sat, 5/17/08, John Wilking <jcwilking at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: John Wilking <jcwilking at yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: [B-Greek] APEQANOMEN THi
> To: "Webb Mealy" <webb at selftest.net>
> Date: Saturday, May 17, 2008, 4:32 PM
> I think the "absurdity" may be hiding the fact
> that each of the phrases don't make sense in English:
> "dead to sin" and "alive to God".  We
> don't say "dead to rebellion" or "alive
> to my wife".  This isn't primarily a translation
> question, but simply that we notice that "we died to
> sin"  isn't even a possibility, and then ask why. 
> Should we alter the verb sense?  Or should we consider the
> possibility that it is figurative language (another way of
> altering the meaning, but of the entire structure)?
> 
> So, I assume by the silence that there are no examples in
> which this structure is seen with other similar nouns,
> e.g., "dead to patronage" or "alive to the
> Emperor".  (I ran it by a friend who teaches Hebrew,
> and at first glance he was unaware of it occuring in that
> language.)
> 
> This led me to ask you if there is a theory of metaphor
> that is currently in use, one that would help us in
> detecting a metaphor when we might otherwise miss it.  I
> spent a good amount of time years ago working on a theory
> of metonym in NT Greek and came away with something of a
> working model, but that doesn't help here.
> 
> Sorry if such elaboration is a waste of time when the
> question and your silence were both clear enough.
> 
> John C. Wilking 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> --- On Fri, 5/16/08, Webb Mealy <webb at selftest.net>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Webb Mealy <webb at selftest.net>
> > Subject: RE: [B-Greek] APEQANOMEN THi
> > To: jcwilking at yahoo.com
> > Cc: "'Biblical Greek'"
> <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Date: Friday, May 16, 2008, 6:25 PM
> > I suppose you get the clue if taking the words in
> their
> > ordinary meanings
> > results in absurdity. Paul says "we have
> died",
> > yet he is alive and he is
> > addressing living people. So "we have died"
> has
> > to be understood as a figure
> > of speech. But that is only step one in trying to
> figure
> > out what is going
> > on.
> > 
> > Webb Mealy
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> > [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf
> Of
> > John Wilking
> > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 2:59 PM
> > To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subject: Re: [B-Greek] APEQANOMEN THi
> > 
> > Concerning the previous post, on a broader scale, how
> do we
> > know if a phrase
> > is metaphorical?  
> > 
> > John C. Wilking
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 5/14/08, John Wilking
> > <jcwilking at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > From: John Wilking <jcwilking at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: APEQANOMEN THi
> > > To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> > > Date: Wednesday, May 14, 2008, 5:30 PM
> > > I haven't found any discussion of APEQANOMEN
> THi
> > as a
> > > possible metaphor in Romans 6:2, APEQANOMEN THi
> > hAMARTIAi.
> > > 
> > > John C. Wilking
> > 
> > 
> >      
> > ---
> > B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> > B-Greek mailing list
> > B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private
> > users.
> > It has removed 11359 spam emails to date.
> > Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
> > Get the free SPAMfighter here:
> > http://www.spamfighter.com/len


      
---
B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
B-Greek mailing list
B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek

7 hO GAR APOQANWN DEDIKAIWTAI APO THS hAMARTIAS
10ὃ γὰρ ἀπέθανεν, τῇ ἁμαρτίᾳ ἀπέθανεν ἐφάπαξ·ὃ δὲ ζῇ, ζῇ τῷ θεῷ. 
10 hO GAR APEQANEN, THi hAMARTIAi APEQANEN EFAPAC; hO DE ZHi, ZHi TWi QEWi. 


      


More information about the B-Greek mailing list