[B-Greek] John 3:25
reznik1 at juno.com
reznik1 at juno.com
Fri Sep 28 13:37:48 EDT 2007
Thank you for your contribution.
Here is what I am questioning (ZHTEW :) ):
"Thus, the text can only be taken one way at this point. It is not the way you suggested."
Why not? In my version, the discussion is also about baptism (purification). You say:
"The Jew is questioning John's disciples since both Jesus' and John's disciples were baptizing". But if we accept the traditional understanding, the text doesn't say anything what the problem about purification was with that "Jew". What did they disagree upon? The very phrase becomes meaningless. You can say that the Jew questioned John's right to baptise, but that would be no more than a guess, plus it had already been discussed in chapter 1.
In my version, if the dispute was between Jesus' and John's disciples, it makes sense what they were arguing about concerning purification, because we see in the following verses that John's disciples became jealous.
What do you think?
Also, because nobody questioned my translation from grammatical perspective, should I understand that it had no grammatical errors?
-- "Bryant J. Williams III" <bjwvmw at com-pair.net> wrote:
Let's look at the context since it seems that will be the place that will most
likely answer your question.
22 Î¼ÎµÏÎ± ÏÎ±Ï
ÏÎ± Î·Î»Î¸ÎµÎ½ Î¿ Î¹Î·ÏÎ¿Ï
Ï ÎºÎ±Î¹ Î¿Î¹ Î¼Î±Î¸Î·ÏÎ±Î¹ Î±Ï
ÎµÎ¹Ï ÏÎ·Î½ Î¹Î¿Ï
Î´Î±Î¹Î±Î½ Î³Î·Î½ ÎºÎ±Î¹ ÎµÎºÎµÎ¹
Î´Î¹ÎµÏÏÎ¹Î²ÎµÎ½ Î¼ÎµÏ Î±Ï
ÏÏÎ½ ÎºÎ±Î¹ ÎµÎ²Î±ÏÏÎ¹Î¶ÎµÎ½
23 Î·Î½ Î´Îµ ÎºÎ±Î¹ Î¹ÏÎ±Î½Î½Î·Ï Î²Î±ÏÏÎ¹Î¶ÏÎ½ ÎµÎ½ Î±Î¹Î½ÏÎ½ ÎµÎ³Î³Ï
ÏÎ±Î»ÎµÎ¹Î¼ Î¿ÏÎ¹ Ï
Î´Î±ÏÎ± ÏÎ¿Î»Î»Î± Î·Î½ ÎµÎºÎµÎ¹
ÎºÎ±Î¹ ÏÎ±ÏÎµÎ³Î¹Î½Î¿Î½ÏÎ¿ ÎºÎ±Î¹ ÎµÎ²Î±ÏÏÎ¹Î¶Î¿Î½ÏÎ¿
ÏÏ Î³Î±Ï Î·Î½ Î²ÎµÎ²Î»Î·Î¼ÎµÎ½Î¿Ï ÎµÎ¹Ï ÏÎ·Î½ ÏÏ
25 ÎµÎ³ÎµÎ½ÎµÏÎ¿ Î¿Ï
Î½ Î¶Î·ÏÎ·ÏÎ¹Ï ÎµÎº ÏÏÎ½ Î¼Î±Î¸Î·ÏÏÎ½ Î¹ÏÎ±Î½Î½Î¿Ï
26 ÎºÎ±Î¹ Î·Î»Î¸Î¿Î½ ÏÏÎ¿Ï ÏÎ¿Î½ Î¹ÏÎ±Î½Î½Î·Î½ ÎºÎ±Î¹ ÎµÎ¹ÏÎ¿Î½ Î±Ï
ÏÏ ÏÎ±Î²Î²ÎµÎ¹ Î¿Ï Î·Î½ Î¼ÎµÏÎ± ÏÎ¿Ï
ÏÎ·ÎºÎ±Ï Î¹Î´Îµ Î¿Ï
ÏÎ¿Ï Î²Î±ÏÏÎ¹Î¶ÎµÎ¹ ÎºÎ±Î¹ ÏÎ±Î½ÏÎµÏ ÎµÏÏÎ¿Î½ÏÎ±Î¹ ÏÏÎ¿Ï Î±Ï
Tischendorf, Constantin von: Tischendorf's Greek New Testament Bd. 3 vol..
electronic ed. of the 8th ed. Oak Harbor : Logos Research Systems, 1997,
c1869-1894, S. Jn 3:22-26
22 META TAUTA HLQEN hQ IHSOUS KAI OI MAQHTAI AUTOU EIS THN IOUDAIAN GHN KAI
EKEI DIETRIBEN MET' AUTWN KAI ENBAPTIZEN
23 HN DE KAI IWANNHS BAPTIZWN EN AINWN EGGUS TOU SALEIM hOTI hUDATA POLLA HN
KEKI KAI PAREGINONTO KAI ENBAPTIZONTO
24 OUPW GAR HN BEBLHMENOS EIS THN FULAKHN IWANNS
25 EGENETO OUN ZHTHSIS EK TWN MAQHTWN IWANNOU META IOUDAIOU PERI KAQARISMOU
26 KAI HLQON PROS TON IWANNHN KAI EIPON AUTWi RABBI OS HN META SOU PERAN TOU
IORDANOU W SU MEMARTURHKAS IDE OUTOS BAPTIZEI KAI PANTES ERXONTAI PROS AUTON
3:25 Then a dispute arose between the disciples of John with a Jew (Judean)
concerning about Purification.
You will notice that BAPTIZEIN is found 4x in verses 22-26. You will also notice
that the text states that Jesus and his disciples and John and his disciples are
baptizing. It is in then followed by the statement by John (the apostle) that
there was a disagreement/dispute between John's disciples and a Jew about
purifying. This is followed by a question to and remark by John the Baptist in
The whole issue is about purification because of the use of BAPTIZEIN and
KAQARISMOU. The Jew is questioning John's disciples since both Jesus' and John's
disciples were baptizing (echoing the question of the priests and Levites in
John 1:25-28). This implies that the Jew is either a priest or Levite who is
also a Pharisee or Sadducee. Since the Pharisees where the group that was more
concerned about ritual purity, I take the Jew to be a Pharisee. In fact,
IOUDAIOU could be taken to mean NOT a Jew, but a Judean since THN IOUDAIAN is
the location where Jesus and His disciples and that the IOUDAIOU came to Aenon
and Salem where John and his disciples are baptizing to aske about the Jesus and
His disciples baptizing. Thus, the text can only be taken one way at this point.
It is not the way you suggested.
ZHTHSIS has META of the person(s) of the dispute and PERI of the issue the
dispute is about; see also Acts 15:2, 7, 25:20; I Tim 6:4; II Tim 2:23; Tit 3:9.
Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
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