Randall Buth randallbuth at gmail.com
Fri Oct 26 05:09:07 EDT 2007

Iver egrapse:
>and possibly in Luke 11:38, although here it is likely that the
"dipping oneself" (which happenes
to be aorist passive) does not refer to full immersion but a
ceremonial cleansing of the hands. I
would have expected a middle form of BAPTW rather than a passive of
BAPTIZW, so it seems
that both the distinction between BAPTW and BAPTIZW as well as the
distinction between middle
and passive have been blurred. >

Perhaps, though this neglects another 1st century item, hemerobaptism
daily immersers. Luke 11:38 can refer to full self-immersion, as
washing the whole outside of the body, in contrast to the inside of
the body. the Lucan context does not mention hands, probably
significantly. Mk 7 is not necessarily parallel and becomes a kind of
red herring,  'des faux amis'.

Iver palin:
>If you [referring toCarl] agree that Acts 22:16 can NOT mean "baptize
then I think we have reached fairly good agreement after all.
This has been my main point throughout, namely, that
the sense of BAPTIZW when used for Christian baptism can not be reflexive,
no matter whether the form is middle or passive.>

Carl will need to answer for himself, though I think that he is
inclined to agree with me. Acts 22:16 is a straightforward middle. i
read it naturally as reflexive. While there is nothing wrong with NT
Greek in reading a QH 'aorist-passive' as middle,  'dip yourself' (cf.
Lk 11:38, whether hand or body), the other direction is not as easily
adopted, to read a middle as a full passive. Iver is free to read that
as 'get yourself ceremonially baptised', and speculate how that would
have been understood in the 30's of the first century. I would say
that the language, timing, culture, and archaeology all point to a
'middle' understanding of Acts 22:16 and the practice. So we differ
and others can weigh the probabilites of the different complete


Randall Buth

Randall Buth, PhD
χάρις ὑμῖν καὶ εἰρήνη πληθυνθείη
שלום לכם וברכות
ybitan at mscc.huji.ac.il
randallbuth at gmail.com

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