[B-Greek] KOPANIZON

Albert Pietersma albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
Mon Jul 16 22:12:31 EDT 2007


My statement was specific to Daniel.  As far as I am aware it is  
universally agreed among biblical scholars that, very early on in the  
reception history of the Septuagint (i.e. pre-CE/AD), the  
Theodotionic text of Daniel supplanted the Septuagint in the book of  
Daniel.    As a result it is true that, in Daniel, the Theodotionic  
text is canonical for those who regard the Greek rather than the  
Hebrew as canonical.  That does not mean, however, that, in biblical  
scholarship the Theodotionic text of Daniel belongs to the Septuagint.
Al
On Jul 16, 2007, at 9:23 PM, frjsilver at optonline.net wrote:

>
> Dear Friends --
>
> I wonder:  Is it really so simple that the canonical Greek 70 is  
> just Theodotion?
>
> Particularly as I work in the psalms, I find more discontinuities  
> between the Hebrew and the canonical Greek 70 than blaming it all  
> on Theodotion might explain.
>
> Certainly there are texual confluences, but that just doesn't seem  
> right to me.  Perhaps Dr Pietersma could clarify?
>
>
> BTW:  When I (at least) wrote 'canonical' here, I meant  -- with no  
> disrespect to scholarship and the continued production of critical  
> editions -- the text which is normative for the Church, which is  
> usually quoted in the New Testament, the Fathers and the Liturgy.
>
> Peace and blessings to all.
>
> Father James Silver
>
> Monk James
> Orthodox Church in America
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Albert Pietersma
> Date: Monday, July 16, 2007 10:33 am
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] KOPANIZON
> To: frjsilver at optonline.net
> Cc: "Carl W. Conrad" , b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org, Litteral John
>
> > It bears noting, however, that "the canonical Greek 70" is none
> > other
> > than so-called Theodition, whose principle of operation was not
> > to
> > improve the Greek of "the seventy" contextually but to reflect
> > the
> > Hebrew more closely on a word-by word-basis. Since MT here has
> > DQQ
> > (crush/pulverize/thresh) it is scarcely a surprise that TH
> > might
> > pick LEPTUNW, no matter what KOPANIZW is thought to mean (note
> > the
> > gloss in LSJ).
> > Al
> > On Jul 16, 2007, at 10:17 AM, frjsilver at optonline.net wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Friends --
> > >
> > > My first instinct is to render this as 'grind, chew,
> > masticate',
> > > but I notice that the canonical Greek 70 replaces KOPANIZON
> > with
> > > LEPTUNON, pretty clearly 'dissolve, digest'.
> > >
> > > The monster is apparently not a dainty eater, but the 70's
> > image
> > > feels to me fairly disgusting here: the other beasts eat the
> >
> > > EPILOIPA which fall to the monster's feet, but in apposition
> > to
> > > LEPTUNON this could well be a reference to excrement rather
> > than
> > > just the slop and crumbs falling from its mouth.
> > >
> > > Peace and blessings to all.
> > >
> > > Father James Silver
> > >
> > > Monk James
> > > Orthodox Church in America
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Carl W. Conrad"
> > > Date: Monday, July 16, 2007 9:44 am
> > > Subject: Re: [B-Greek] KOPANIZON
> > > To: Litteral John
> > > Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> > >
> > >>
> > >> On Jul 16, 2007, at 9:13 AM, Litteral John wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> I have run onto a word that I am unsure about. It is found in
> > >> Daniel> 7:7 of the Old Greek LXX, not Theodotian. Here is some
> > >> of the passage
> > >>> to put it into context. My translation would roughly be,
> > >>> "surpassing in
> > >>> strength. It had great iron teeth, eating and ????" Would it
> > >> best be
> > >>> translated "pounding" or "thrashing?" Thanks! John Litteral
> > >>> John.Litteral at ashland.kyschools.us
> > >>>
> > >>> uperferwn iscui econ odontaV sidhrouV megalouV esqion kai
> > kopanizon>>
> > >> John, please don't try to scissors-and paste a Greek text
> > into a
> > >>
> > >> message unless you are sure that it is in Unicode (UTF-8)
> > plain-
> > >> text.
> > >> And even if you do put it into you message as Unicode Greek, you
> > >> must
> > >> follow the B-Greek protocol and use the regular B-Greek
> > >> transliteration scheme that is explained within the BG-FAQ page
> > >> at
> > >> http://ibiblio.org/bgreek/bgtransliteration.html
> > >>
> > >> The phrase you're concerned with is evidently κοπανίζον
> > >> KOPANIZON; LEH offers "grind, pound" as a sense for KOPANIZW; it
> > >>
> > >> looks like this is an extended form of KOPTW (root KOP) meaning
> > >> "hit," "pound," "chop."
> > >>
> > >> Carl W. Conrad
> > >> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> > >> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> > >> cwconrad2 at mac.com
> > >> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ---
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> > >>
> > > ---
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> >
> >




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