Seth sethvm at gmail.com
Thu Jul 5 17:37:02 EDT 2007

Very good, I see what you mean about the nominative case used in place of
the vocative within the context of conversations (e.g., John 20:28).

Thanks for all of your insight, and if possible, your colleague's upcoming
research. If time, space, and energy permit, I would appreciate a little
more insight on the matter of using the article with a proper name.

As you mentioned above:

>When the article is used with a personal name, the reason is not to
indicate definiteness, but it >can be a discourse feature that relates to
the tracing of participants, i.e. now introduced or >earlier mentioned.

In just a cursory reading of the Koine NT, one can see various examples
where the article is and is not used, but I would appreciate further insight
into any of its linguistic or idiomatic use with personal names. In some
cases, it already seems clear that any given person had been introduced
earlier, such as in cases where it says "LEGEI AUTOIS hO IHSOUS..." (John
21.10). Is this just how the article works when describing someone in the
third person, or is there really no discernible pattern here?

(BTW: Any other insight from the list is appreciated as well!)


Seth Moran
A man's pride will bring him low,
but a humble spirit will obtain honor.
                Proverbs 29:23

On 7/5/07, Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Seth" <sethvm at gmail.com>
> To: "Iver Larsen" <iver_larsen at sil.org>; <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 11:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] H AGAPH TOU QEOU
> > Iver, et al.,
> >
> > Fascinating--I am looking forward to searching the Scriptures myself to
> see
> > this trend with KURIOS and hO KURIOS.
> >
> > So far, I'm seeing this unfold with a few examples already, but after
> > looking at several passages involving dialogue, am I correct in saying
> that
> > dialogue doesn't seem to adhere to any so-called article "requirements"
> at
> > all? For instance, in Matt. 8:21, one person says to the Lord Jesus,
> > EPITREYON MOI PRWTON APELQEIN..." and in a passage just above that
> passage,
> > someone remarks "DIDASKALE, AKOLOUQHSW SOI..."
> >
> > Thanks for the insight,
> >
> > --
> > Seth Moran
> Yes, when I said "regardless of case" I wasn't thinking of the vocative
> which is
> a special case. The article is not used with a word that has a special
> vocative
> form like KURIE no matter what the reference is. Sometimes a nominative
> form is
> used in an address instead of a vocative, and in that case, the article
> may be
> present. When KURIOS/KURIOI is used in an address, it refers to the sense
> "master, lord" whether it occurs with or without the article.
> Iver Larsen

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