Seth sethvm at gmail.com
Wed Jul 4 16:07:09 EDT 2007

Hi Iver, and the rest of the b-Greek list:

So if I understand what you're saying, you assert that there is consistency
within the Koine text which would indicate that when the authors speak of
the Lord Jesus and the Lord YHWH in the genitive case, they would distinct
YHWH with KURIOU and the Lord Jesus as TOU KURIOU, correct?

If this is so, does this phenomena exist with any other Koine noun-case?



On 7/4/07, Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Seth" <sethvm at gmail.com>
> >
> > Is there any meaningful difference between the following two phrases?
> >
> > H AGAPH TOU QEOU and H AGAPH QEOU? The genitive case of QEOU is
> essentially
> > covered in each case, without the need of the article, correct? If so,
> then
> > what's the purpose of the article before QEOU?
> >
> > Thanks all,
> >
> > --
> > Seth Moran
> hH AGAPH QEOU does not occur in the GNT (nor in the LXX). I suppose the
> meaning would be "the love
> of a god" (maybe one of the Greek gods?). The standard reference to God is
> hO QEOS, so we would
> expect hH AGAPH TOU QEOU for "the love of/for God".
> In Acts 7:58 we find PARA TOUS PODAS NEANIOU where you have a genitive
> noun without the article: At
> the feet of a young man.
> The article is not used with a personal name, e.g. hO hUIOS DAVID (the son
> of David), because a
> personal name is unique and requires no definite article to specify that
> uniqueness. When the
> article is used with a personal name, the reason is not to indicate
> definiteness, but it can be a
> discourse feature that relates to the tracing of participants, i.e. now
> introduced or earlier
> mentioned.
> Compare this with hO hUIOS TOU QEOU (the son of God) where the article is
> always present, because
> QEOS in Greek is not considered a personal name. KURIOS without the
> article IS considered a proper
> name in the GNT and it corresponds to the personal name of God, YHWH. When
> KURIOS has the article,
> it refers to the Lord Jesus or any other lord/master. Dr. Richard Brown
> has written articles about
> this, but let me just give two interesting examples:
> (the prophets who spoke in the name of YHWH)
> (having anointed him with oil in the name of the Lord (Jesus))
> So, your phrase with KURIOS-YHWH would be hH AGAPH KURIOU. (I said "would"
> since this phrase does
> not occur in the GNT.) There are many other phrases with KURIOS, e.g. hO
> of YHWH, Mat 1:24), EN TWi NOMWi KURIOU (in the law of YHWH, Luk 2:24),
> THN hODON KURIOU (The way of
> YHWH, Luk 3:4) etc. The distinction between KURIOS as referring to YHWH
> and hO KURIOS as referring
> to Jesus as Lord is generally lost in English translations, since both are
> translated "the Lord".
> It is rather complicated, since the occurrence of the article before the
> genitive also depends on
> the uniqueness of the first noun. For instance, we read EIS TON NAON TOU
> KURIOU (into the Temple of
> YHWH, Luk 1:9), where I assume the TOU is there because there is only one
> Temple.
> Similarly, a word like MHTHR is unique in a genitive construction, because
> any person has only one
> mother, e.g. hH MHTHR TOU IHSOU (The mother of Jesus), where the TOU is
> there in spite of Jesus
> being a personal name, probably because of the uniqueness of the whole
> expression "mother of Jesus".
> The usage of the definite article in Greek is much more complicated than
> can be covered in an
> e-mail, especially because there is some overlap with English, but also a
> lot of differences.
> Iver Larsen

Seth Moran
A man's pride will bring him low,
but a humble spirit will obtain honor.
                Proverbs 29:23

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