[B-Greek] Fwd: Re: Modern vs. Erasmian pronunciation, something new

Carl Thomas slewfoot at rangeweb.net
Thu Nov 30 19:46:36 EST 2006


Thanks for your view. And you are right in the end I'm the only one that 
can make the choice. While at the same time as a beginner I feel that I 
have learned a lot from these posts. "But: when new beginners keep 
asking that same question over and over again, we must expect to see the 
same answers, I guess." I 'm sorry if I kept asking the same question 
over and over again and caused your reading to become "tedious".







Carl W. Conrad wrote:
>
> On Nov 30, 2006, at 7:00 PM, Carl Thomas wrote:
>
>> After reading these post on Modern vs. Erasmian pronunciation I'm more
>> confused about which I should use. At this point in my life (I'm 62) all
>> I wanted to do is fulfill a life's dream and that is learn to read and
>> do a little work in the Greek New Testament. So I'm setting here and
>> still asking which should I use but I should have know that there would
>> not be a consensus. Just like my 40 years of work in the church there
>> has never been a consensus but then again that as also brought a lot of
>> enjoyment and it has driven me to do a lot studying that I may not have
>> done. So now the question remains. Which one? And can I decide that?
>> :-)      Questions, questions.
>
> In fact, ONLY YOU can decide which you want to use. OF COURSE
> those who will express themselves on this issue will split over it.
> For my part, I find it tedious to read again and again, after intervals
> of a few short weeks, the same insistent urgings from the same persons
> for the same view of the right pronunciation. But: when new beginners
> keep asking that same question over and over again, we must expect
> to see the same answers, I guess. But ultimately, YOU and ONLY YOU
> must make the choice -- and which you choose is far less important if
> you're not likely to communicate orally in Biblical Greek with others.
> What you need is some consistent way of vocalizing the Greek as an
> aid to learning vocabulary and thinking vocally about Greek texts.
>
> The unquestionably GOOD thing about the recurrence of this
> discussion is that it means more beginners continue to start out their
> way toward reading Biblical Greek -- and they're serious about it
> or they wouldn't be raising the question of pronunciation so
> earnestly.
>
>>
>>
>> Anthony Buzzard wrote:
>>> Gentlemen, I can affirm after many years teaching NT Greek with a
>>> modern pronunciation that it works well and the possible difficulty
>>> caused by so many sounds being "ee" is really not a problem.
>>> We just say "when in doubt say 'ee'" (!)    UMEIS and EMEIS sound the
>>> same but if one remembers that the U (upsilon) corresponds to YOU, 
>>> all is fine.
>>> The language is exciting for students who sometimes meet Greek
>>> speakers who are rather amazed that they can recite John 1 and be
>>> understood! Americans and African English speakers manage the pure
>>> vowel sounds quite well, generally, and some gifted ones learn to
>>> read quite fluently in a very few weeks. This gives a sense of success.
>>> Anthony Buzzard, Atlanta Bible College
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>> Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:45:33 -0600
>>>> From: Curtis Hinson <curtis at curtishinson.com>
>>>> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025)
>>>> To: Randall Buth <randallbuth at gmail.com>,
>>>>         B-Greek <B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Modern vs. Erasmian pronunciation, something 
>>>> new
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>>>>
>>>> That certainly all rings a bell.  There is a mythology regarding
>>>> pronunciation that is deeply rooted and that flies in the face of a 
>>>> fair
>>>> examination of phonological evidence and language acquisition theory.
>>>> It is, in a word, closed-minded and un-scholarly.
>>>>
>>>> My experience these past few years teaching off and on has been that
>>>> students who learn modern pronunciation from me have had no complaints
>>>> about understanding the accent, never having known any other.  
>>>> Erasmian
>>>> students complain sometimes about a Greek accent when they hear it.
>>>> This observation makes me suspect that we are indeed creatures of 
>>>> habit,
>>>> even those with far more scholarly experience and background than 
>>>> I.  So
>>>> we should cultivate and teach good habits to begin with, instead of 
>>>> bad
>>>> ones, lest we later waste time defending systems that are merely bad
>>>> habits and not good scholarship or good pedagogy.
>>>>
>>>> I've been thinking that English is a big mess.  You know, we have 
>>>> vocab
>>>> sourced from several different languages and one can't tell the
>>>> pronunciation of a word by looking at it's spelling, one just has to
>>>> know.  So why don't we pick a phonology from a source language and 
>>>> throw
>>>> out the others?  That way "hors d'oeuvre" will finally sound like 
>>>> "horse
>>>> doh-vrah", it's less work for students.  Or I guess instead we could
>>>> just pick some random alien phonology that has nothing to do with
>>>> English and use that.  Oh, wait, just kidding.  :-D
>>>>
>>>> Bless the Name
>>>> Curtis Hinson
>>>> http://adfontes.ath.cx
>>>> http://curtishinson.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Randall Buth wrote the following on 11/30/2006 1:24 PM:
>>>>
>>>>> I share some of your concerns and even your history. During the 80's
>>>>> to early 90's I
>>>>> was using a modern pronunciation. Around 1995-1996 while sitting in
>>>>> Africa far afield
>>>>> from most NT centers, Bible translation colleagues convinced me that
>>>>> no one in NT
>>>>> studies would listen to "modern" materials, even if pedagogically
>>>>> sound. The same
>>>>> people all agreed that a "Koine" pronunciation would need to be
>>>>>
>>>> used. I agreed.
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>>
>>>> My local weather at the time of this email:
>>>> 28F (-2C), Light Snow and Windy
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>> Anthony Buzzard
>>> www.restorationfellowship.org
>>>
>>> ---
>>> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --Carl Thomas
>> Ashland, Montana 59003
>> United States of America
>>
>> ---
>> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
>> B-Greek mailing list
>> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
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>
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad2 at mac.com
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>
>
>


-- 
Carl Thomas
Ashland, Montana 59003
United States of America




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