[B-Greek] Rev. 19:21--names written on what??

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Fri Nov 24 19:11:35 EST 2006


11 KAI EIDON TON OURANON HNEWiGMENON, KAI IDOU hIPPOS LEUKOS KAI hO KAQHMENOS EP' AUTON [KALOUMENONS] PISTOS KAI ALHQINOS, KAI EN DIKAIOSUNHi KRINEI KAI POLEMEI
12 hOI DE OFQALMOI AUTOU [hWS] FLOC PUROS, KAI EPI THN KEFALHN AUTOU DIADHMATA POLLA, EXWN ONOMA GEGRAMMENON hO OUDEIS OIDEN EI MH AUTOS.

I think you'll find if you look more carefully that EXWN relates to hO KAQHMENOS EP' AUTON and is thus masc.
 
george
gfsomsel
_________



----- Original Message ----
From: Webb <webb at selftest.net>
To: B Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 6:39:39 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Rev. 19:21--names written on what??


Does it move you towards Lattimore and me for me to observe that John likes
using EXWN with a neuter singular subject?

KAI TO TRITON ZWiON ECWN TO PROSWPON hWS ANQRWPOU (Rev. 4:7)

KAI TA TESSARA ZWiA hEN KAQ hEN AUTWN ECWN ANA PTERUGAS hEX (Rev. 4:8)

KAI EIDON EN MESWi TOU QRONOU KAI TWN TESSARWN ZWiWN KAI EN MESWi TWN
PRESBUTERWN ARNION hESTHKOS hWS ESFAGMENON ECWN KERATA hEPTA (Rev. 5:6)

KAI EIDON KAI IDOU NEFELH LEUKH KAI EPI THN NEFELHN KAQHMENON hOMOION hUION
ANQRWPOU ECWN EPI THS KEFALHS AUTOU STEFANON CRUSOUN (Rev. 14:14) Or would
the attraction to the gender of ANQRWPOS be predicted in non-solecistic
Greek?

KAI EIDON GUNAIKA KAQHMENHN EPI QHRION KOKKINON GEMONTA ONOMATA BLASFHMIAS
ECWN KEFALAS hEPTA KAI KERATA DEKA (Rev. 17:3)

KAI EPI THN KEFALHN AUTOU DIADHMATA POLLA ECWN ONOMA GEGRAMMENON hO OUDEIS
OIDEN EI MH AUTOS (Rev. 19:12) 

KAI TO TEICOS THS POLEWS ECWN QEMELIOUS DWDEKA (Rev. 21:14)

Note that John is also capable of doing it right (either that, or somebody
has fixed it extremely early in transmission--it sounds about the same in
dictation, anyway, right?):

KAI EIDON EK THS QALASSHS QHRION ANABAINON ECON KERATA DEKA KAI KEFALAS
hEPTA (Rev. 13:1)

Now, on a totally different tack, can one take ECWN with what precedes? Thus
(observe the comma):

KAI EPI THN KEFALHN AUTOU DIADHMATA POLLA ECWN, ONOMA GEGRAMMENON hO OUDEIS
OIDEN EI MH AUTOS (Rev. 19:12)

Once again I guess the assumption would have to be that GEGRAMMENON is
singular because he's thinking distributively. 

I'll be glad if any of this works, because those crowns want names on them.
:)

Webb Mealy

-----Original Message-----
From: Carl W. Conrad [mailto:cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu] 
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 2:28 PM
To: Webb
Cc: 'B Greek'
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Rev. 19:21--names written on what??


On Nov 24, 2006, at 4:57 PM, Webb wrote:

> KAI EPI THN KEFALHN AUTOU DIADHMATA POLLA ECWN ONOMA GEGRAMMENON hO  
> OUDEIS
> OIDEN EI MH AUTOS
>
>
>
> Given that neuter plural nouns are often treated grammatically as  
> singular,
> I immediately took the "name written" as inscribed on each of the  
> royal
> crowns, thus:
>
>
>
> .and on his head are many royal crowns. They have a name (or names,
> implicitly, the singular functioning as distributive) written on  
> them, which
> nobody knows but him."

The reason this won't do is that the participle ECWN is masc. sg.  
nom. -- it cannot possibly modify DIADHMA sg. or DIADHMATA pl. It can  
only refer to the rider of the horse, although it is awkwardly  
positioned -- another of the grammatical irregularities of this book  
that we commonly refer to as "solecisms."

>
> Looking at 35 English translations or so, I couldn't find a single  
> one that
> took it that way. But then.I read Lattimore:
>
>
>
> "On his head are many diadems, inscribed with the name which no one  
> knows
> except himself."
>
>
>
> I love it when Lattimore and I agree all by ourselves :)
>
>
>
> Can anyone tell me why Lattimore and I can't be correct?
>
>
>
> Webb Mealy
>
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/




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