[B-Greek] Translation/Defintion of Porneia

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Sat Nov 18 13:23:08 EST 2006


I'd say they are reasonably reliable and getting better all the time.  The Oxyrhynchus Papyri were a big help in refining the meaning of many words (note the references in BDAG to MM -- that's Moulton & Milligan).  Ann Nyland could be more informative on this point than I can.
 
george
gfsomsel
_________



----- Original Message ----
From: Harry Jones <hjbluebird2002 at yahoo.com>
To: BGREEK <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 10:53:59 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Translation/Defintion of Porneia


Hi George,
   
  What I was concerned with is just how reliable are lexicons?
   
  Best Regards,
   
  Harry Jones

George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com> wrote:
          
  You could try flat enamel.  :-)  Seriously though, many complain about glosses, but I see no real problem.  I've always felt free to choose a word not in the "approved list" by looking at a thesaurus to see what other words are similar and then choose what seems to fit the context.  If you look at the way in which English language dictionaries are compiled, you will find that they look at the ways in which people actually use words and then attempt to classify them according to they way in which they are used.  This isn't so different from the way in which lexicons dealing with older usages in other languages such as Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic are compiled.  It wouldn't make much sense to arbitrarily determine that ABCD meant XYZ and then force any passage in which it appeared to conform to that meaning.

george
gfsomsel
_________   

  ----- Original Message ----
From: Harry Jones <hjbluebird2002 at yahoo.com>
To: BGREEK <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 5:42:16 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Translation/Defintion of Porneia

  Hi George,
   
  Well I'm wondering which comes first, the chicken or the egg? That is, does the definition of a word determine the meaning of the context or does the context determine the meaning of  a word?  I've always had a problem with the idea of glosses.
   
  Best Regards,
   
  Harry Jones
   
  

George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com> wrote:
          
  I don't know, Harry.  Is the Apocalypse NT times enough?
   
        ALLA EXW KATA SOU hOTI AFEIS THN GUNAIKA IEZABEL, hH LEGOUSA hEAUTHN PROFHTHN KAI DIDASKEI KAI PLANAi TOUS EMOUS DOULOUS PORNEUSAI KAI FAGEIN EIDWLOQUTA
   
  Apparently the eating of food which had been used in the pagan sacrifices was considered by the apocalyptist to be a metaphorical commiting of sexual impropriety.




george
gfsomsel
_________   

  ----- Original Message ----
From: Harry Jones <hjbluebird2002 at yahoo.com>
To: BGREEK <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 10:37:02 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Translation/Defintion of Porneia

  Hello Ann,
   
  Shouldn't the definition(I have a problem with glosses,ie, the context can accept different definitions) of PORNEIA be based on it meaning in NT times?
   
  Best Regards,
   
  Harry Jones
   
  

Ann Nyland <nyland at tsn.cc> wrote:
  It also refers to idolatry. "Fornication" can mean different things in our 
society of our times - these days, it is often taken to include living 
together without marriage, but in NT times, living together was legal 
marriage, and the translation of PORNEIA is more problematical as it refers 
also to idolatry, and prostitution, and often the two were linked. Jewish, 
Greek and Roman marriage customs in 1st century Palestine were nothing like 
marriage customs in USA, UK or Australia today, and that needs to be taken 
into account when considering "marriage" along with word meaning in the N.T.
Ann Nyland

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George F Somsel" 
To: "JCG" ; 
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Translation/Defintion of Porneia


> PORNEIA refers to any type of sexual impropriety either before or after 
> marriage. I suggest that you should get a copy of BDAG which is Bauer, 
> Danker, Arndt & Gingrich _A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and 
> Other Early Christian Literature_. This is a virtually indispensible tool 
> (after the GNT itself) for the study of the New Testament.
>
> george
> gfsomsel
> _________
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: JCG 
> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 6:59:23 PM
> Subject: [B-Greek] Translation/Defintion of Porneia
>
>
> Dear Group,
> I'm new here and thanks for allowing me to join. I have a somewhat simple 
> question. I've been studying a bit on the word porneia and wanted to know 
> if
> fornication is an accurate translation or would "harlotry" or "whoredom" 
> be better suited for porneia?

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