[B-Greek] Translation/Defintion of Porneia

Harry Jones hjbluebird2002 at yahoo.com
Sat Nov 18 10:49:22 EST 2006


Hi Edward,
   
  Well in the context of Jim is xxx, xxx could mean "bad" or "good" or "well" or "sick" if you see my point. In this context the meaning of this particular sentence is determined by the meaning od "xxx". Right? I think most often the meaning of a sentence is determined by the definitions of the words in the sentence. Now since the definitions of the words for Greek sentences come from a lexicon we must ask ourselves how did they get their definitions. Don't you agree Edward? Or have I missed something?
   
  Best Regards,
   
  Harry Jones



Edward Andrews <edandrews at adelphia.net> wrote:
  Harry:

Harry, no word's definition lives outside of context. What if I was to say 
"Jim is green"? "Green" could mean that 1) Jim is lacking experience, 2) he 
is envious, or 3) Jim is looking sick." In many cases, a word could have 
multiple meanings, with context helping us to understand which the writer 
intended. In translation, I think it is best to stick with the broadest 
definition, allowing the reader to determine what is meant. Lexicons compile 
their definitions from the vast storehouse of Greek literature that is 
available at any given time to the body of researchers. As you have 
noticed, we are constantly updating dictionaries and lexicons because of new 
discoveries of Greek literature, or a more in-depth look into what we 
already have.

Fornication (Greek por·nei´a ) applies to illicit sexual relations outside 
Scriptural marriage. It includes adultery, prostitution, and sex relations 
between unmarried individuals as well as oral and anal sex and sexual 
manipulation of the genitals of an individual to whom one is not married. 
New Testament (revised by F. W. Gingrich and F. Danker, 1979, p. 693) 
defines por·nei´a as "prostitution, unchastity, fornication, of every kind 
of unlawful sexual intercourse." Porneia is understood to involve the 
grossly immoral use of the genital organ(s) of at least one human; also 
there must have been two or more parties (including another consenting human 
or a beast), whether of the same sex or the opposite sex.

Rev 2:20: The woman Jezebel who claims to be a prophetess in Thyatira is 
obviously a sham. It is likely, she is a woman or group of women acting as a 
shameless corrupting influence in the congregation. Some associated women 
may have been involving congregation members in immorality, while brazenly 
justifying their self-willed course by misapplying scriptures. False 
prophesying indeed! They would influence others to fall into their own ways 
of "fornication, uncleanness, sexual appetite, hurtful desire, and 
covetousness, which is idolatry." (Colossians 3:5) They would have those in 
the congregation indulge in an immoral, self-seeking life-style.

Edward Andrews


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Harry Jones" 
To: "BGREEK" 
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Translation/Defintion of Porneia


> Hello Ted,
>
> Well I do wonder where the lexicons get their definitions from? Is it 
> just guess work? How reliable are they on accuracy?
>
> Someone who posted not too long ago, came close to bring that subject up.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Harry Jones
>
> "shoes6 at juno.com" wrote:
> Harry, George, and others:
>
> I'm taking a dangerous step, disagreeing with my betters, but here
> goes. George Somsel quoted a passage (Revelation 2:20, it seems) which
> he uses as evidence that PORNEIA can refer to idolatry. While I agree
> that the concepts of immorality and idolatry are *linked* throughout
> the Bible, I do not find this passage to offer grammatical (or other)
> proof that PORNEIA can *mean* idolatry. Could we not, just as easily,
> translate the passage as:
> " . . . to commit sexual sin, and [also] to eat idolatrous offerings."
> Thus the two acts are mentioned together, but not necessarily
> identified as the same thing. I realize this is a point of
> interpretation. I'm not saying that my interp is right; only that
> George hasn't proved his case yet.
>
> Ted Shoemaker
>
> What blind spot? I don't see any blind spot!
>
> George Somsel wrote:
>
>> I don't know, Harry. Is the Apocalypse NT times enough?
>>
>> ALLA EXW KATA SOU hOTI AFEIS THN GUNAIKA IEZABEL, hH LEGOUSA hEAUTHN
>> PROFHTHN KAI DIDASKEI KAI PLANAi TOUS EMOUS DOULOUS PORNEUSAI KAI
>> FAGEIN EIDWLOQUTA
>>
>> Apparently the eating of food which had been used in the pagan
>> sacrifices was considered by the apocalyptist to be a metaphorical
>> commiting of sexual impropriety.
>>
>> george
>> gfsomsel
>
>
>
>
>
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