[B-Greek] Luke 19:31

Carlton Winbery winberycl at earthlink.net
Fri Nov 17 11:38:20 EST 2006


>I was somewhat anticipating a comment regarding the matter of 
>concord between KWMHN in 19.30 and AUTOU in 19.31 in my proposal. 
>Since I didn't get any response, I'll ask a question.  Might AUTOU 
>refer to KWMHN despite its lack of agreement in gender as being a 
>constructio ad sensum, and thus having the natural gender, since the 
>authorities in the village would in this era be males?
>
>george
>gfsomsel
>_________

>
>In 19:30-31. . . PWLON (PWLOS m.) . . . AUTON . . . AUTOU . . .

George, what's wrong with the obvious, the antecedent of both 
pronouns is PWLON. Its the PWLOS that has to be untied and its the 
PWLOS that "The Lord has need of." AUTOU explains the need. Am I 
missing something here?

Carlton Winbery
Retired Prof.

>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
>To: A. J. Birch <a_j_birch at yahoo.es>; B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 12:07:23 PM
>Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Luke 19:31
>
>
>1. NON-EXPLICIT OBJECT of XREIAN + EXW
>
>A search has given me the following statistics in the NT:
>
>Total occurances of XREIAN + (a form of) EXW = 34
>
>1.  (XREIAN + EXW) + before (5 words) infinitive         = 8
>2.  (XREIAN + EXW) + before (5 words) hINA             =  4
>3.  (XREIAN + EXW) + before (5 words) noun (gen)     =11
>4.  (XREIAN + EXW) + before (5 words) pronoun (gen) =  2
>________________________________________________
>
>Total                                                                      25
>
>As you can see the sum of the parts do not equal the whole.  Since 
>this cannot be, I assume that there are instances which fall into 
>more than one category which the search engine didn't distinguish. 
>One verse has 2 differing usages.  Additionally, there are a few 
>instances where there is no inf, hINA, gen noun or gen pron.
>
>Mt 21.3 // Mk 11.3 // Lk 19.31 + Lk 19.34 (Our pericope).  In Lk the 
>gen pron precedes XREIAN + EXW
>Mk 2.25 where it has the meaning "we are hungry"
>Jn 13.29 "whatever we need" -- unspecified
>Acts 2.45; 4.35 -- unspecified need
>Eph 4.28 -- unspecified need
>1 Thess 4.12 -- unspecified need
>1 Jn 3.17 -- unspecified need
>Re 3.17 -- specified lack of need
>
>I'm not sure of the totals at this point, but this leaves 1 Cor 
>12.24 which does not specify the need but leaves it to be understood 
>and is supplied by an understood reference to TIMHN PERISSOTERAN 
>PERITIQEMEN in the preceding verse.  If a pronoun were to be 
>supplied, it would most likely need to be AUTOU, TOUTOU or EKEINOU.
>
>2. hOI KURIOI AUTOU
>
>I was thinking that this might refer back (a long way) to KWMH and 
>refer to the authorities of the village.  We do, however, have a 
>problem of gender, n'est pas?
>
>george
>gfsomsel
>_________
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: A. J. Birch <a_j_birch at yahoo.es>
>To: B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:48:40 AM
>Subject: [B-Greek] Luke 19:31
>
>
>George,
>
>Luke 19:31:
>"KAI EAN TIS hUMAS ERWTAi, 'DIA TI LUETE;' hOUTWS EREITE hOTI 'hO KURIOS
>AUTOU CREIAN ECEI.'"
>
>Although, on the face of it, this is (gramatically) ambiguous,
>
>(1) how common is it for the object of "ECW CREIAN" not to be explicit (as
>in your first alternative)?;
>
>(2) in vv. 33 and 34 the phrase is used by the two disciples to the owners
>(hOI KURIOI AUTOU), which seems to make the first of your two alternatives
>unlikely, does it not?
>
>Andrew J. Birch
>Palma de Mallorca, Spain
>
>
>
>        
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-- 
Carlton L. Winbery
Retired Professor of Religion
Louisiana College
318-448-6103
winberycl at earthlink.net
http://tinyurl.com/dy5zr



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