[B-Greek] EILHFEN, Rev. 8:5 -- "aoristic"?

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Wed Nov 15 19:36:49 EST 2006


On Nov 15, 2006, at 6:44 PM, frjsilver at optonline.net wrote:

>> From a slightly oblique angle, I have to say that I've become  
>> convinced that a very high proportion of aorist verbs in the Greek  
>> 70 aren't really of that tense at all, but are an attempt to  
>> render many Hebrew verbs in a sort of durative or habitual  
>> (imperfective) aspect in Greek;  I call this phenomenon 'aoristic'.
>
> As such, even though these Hebrew verbs were translated into Greek  
> aorists in The 70 and they've usually been rendered into English by  
> present-perfect forms, I think they might better be represented by  
> simple present-tense forms.

I quite agree with this; as I've said before, I really think that the  
Koine present perfect aorist were in process of merging -- as the  
Latin tenses had merged much earlier --, and that many Koine aorists  
translate very well as present perfects -- or what the French refer  
to as "the past indefinite."

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carl W. Conrad"
> Date: Monday, November 13, 2006 4:16 pm
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] EILHFEN, Rev. 8:5 -- "aoristic"?
> To: George F Somsel
> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>
>> I rather think that the aorist and present perfect overlap
>> increasingly in usage in the Koine -- I think that many an
>> aorist can
>> be legitimately Englished as "I have ... /he/she has ... "; it's
>>
>> possible that influence of Latin usage (the Latin aorist and
>> perfect
>> merged into the single tense -- perfect-- very early. Certainly
>> the
>> perfect tense is less common in Koine than it was in earlier periods.
>>
>> On Nov 13, 2006, at 3:46 PM, George F Somsel wrote:
>>
>>> Robertson terms this "The 'Aoristic' Present Perfect" on pp
>> 898-902
>>> of his _A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of
>>> Historical Research_. He also references Burton, _Syntax of
>> the
>>> Moods and Tenses in New Testament Greek_, pp 43-44
>>>
>>> Still other cases should perhaps be explained as Aoristic
>> Perfects,
>>> but for the reasons mentioned in 86 it is impossible [Page 44]
>> to
>>> decide with certainty. While there is clear evidence that the
>>> Perfect tense was in the New Testament sometimes an Aorist in
>>> force, yet it is to be observed that the New Testament writers
>> had
>>> perfect command of the distinction between the Aorist and the
>>> Perfect. The instances of the Perfect in the sense of the
>> Aorist
>>> are confined almost entirely to a few forms, ESXHKA, EILHFA,
>>> hEWRAKA, EIRHKA, and GEGONA, and the use of each of these
>> forms in
>>> the sense of an Aorist mainly to one or more writers whose use
>> of
>>> it is apparently almost a personal idiosyncrasy. Thus the
>> aoristic
>>> use of GEGONA belongs to Matt.; of EILHFA to John in Rev.; of
>>> ESXHKA to Paul; but see also Heb. 7:13. The idiom is therefore
>>
>>> confined within narrow limits in the New Testament. Cf.
>> Ev.Pet. 23,
>>> 31.
>>>
>>> Burton, E. D. W. (1898). Syntax of the moods and tenses in New
>>
>>> Testament Greek (3rd ed.) (43). Edinburg: T. & T. Clark.
>>>
>>>
>>> george
>>> gfsomsel
>>> _________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>> From: Webb
>>> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 2:45:40 PM
>>> Subject: [B-Greek] EILHFEN, Rev. 8:5 -- "aoristic"?
>>>
>>>
>>> KAI EILHFEN hO ANGELOS [AGGELOS?] TON LIBANTWNON, KAI
>> EGEMISEN
>>> AUTON EK TOU
>>> PUROS... Rev. 8:5
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Can someone confirm for me that EILHFEN (perfect) is truly
>>> equivalent to
>>> ELABEN (aorist) here, as ZG says? If it isn't, what nuance do
>> we
>>> get from
>>> the use of the perfect?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Webb Mealy
>>>
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>>
>>
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
>> cwconrad2 at mac.com
>> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>>
>>
>> ---
>> B-Greek home page: http://ibiblio.org/bgreek
>> B-Greek mailing list
>> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
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>>


Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/





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