[B-Greek] Rev. 8:9--what died?

Webb webb at selftest.net
Wed Nov 15 14:08:44 EST 2006


Dear Iver,
The Genesis 1:20 passage is certainly relevant to the question--thank you.
It raises more questions.

I note that in the LXX, there doesn't seem to be any mention of fish at all,
in connection to YUCH ZWHS. Reptiles (hERPETOI) are mentioned as having YUCH
ZWHS, as are sea monsters, i.e. presumably whales (KHTOI), but where are the
fish??
KAI EIPEN hO QEOS EXAGAGETW TA HUDATA hERPETA YUCWN ZWSWN KAI PETEINA
PETOMENA EPI THS GHS KATA TO STEREWMA TOU OURANOU KAI EGENETO hOUTWS 

KAI EPOIHSEN hO QEOS TA KHTH TA MEGALA KAI PASAN YUCHN ZWiWN hERPETWN hA
EXHGAGEN TA UDATA KATA GENH AUTWN KAI PAN PETEINON PTERWTON KATA GENOS KAI
EIDEN hO QEOS hOTI KALA 

KAI HULOGHSEN AUTA O QEO LEGWN AUXANESQE KAI PLHQUNESQE KAI PLHRWSATE TA
hUDATA EN TAIS QALASSAIS KAI TA PETEINA PLHQUNESQWSAN EPI THS GHS

I'm inclined towards it, but I still don't feel totally confident that
non-air-breathers are in view in Rev. 8:9. 


Webb Mealy
-----Original Message-----
From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Iver Larsen
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 11:18 PM
To: B-Greek B-Greek
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Rev. 8:9--what died?

> Thanks, Iver--the second passage, 16:3, is 100% relevant. What I need to
> know now is, were fish considered in first-century Jewish thinking to be
> "living souls", cf. PASA YUCH ZWHS (Rev. 16:3), as human beings and other
> air-breathing animals are (cf. Gen. 1:30 LXX, cf. Gen. 2:7 LXX)? I have a
> strong feeling that Jews wouldnt have seen fish and insects and
crustaceans
> and mollusks and worms and so on as belonging in that category. But I cant
> remember where I learned that.
>
> Webb Mealy

Yes, as far as I can see "fish" would be included in the very broad category
of  "living beings", at 
least for a Jew familiar with the Greek text of the creation story. The most
relevant place to look 
would be when God created the marine life in Gen 1:20. Here God caused TA
hUDATA to swarm with YUCWN 
ZWSWN. The same words are used in the following verse. I assume the reason
for using the generic 
"living beings" rather than the specific "fish" is that God created all
marine life, not just the 
fish. Notice that the specific word for fish is not mentioned until verse
26. If "fish" had not been 
included among the "living beings" in the water, they should have been
listed separately in Gen 
1:20-21.

Iver Larsen 

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