[B-Greek] Rev. 8:9--what died?

Bryant J. Williams III bjwvmw at com-pair.net
Tue Nov 14 01:35:32 EST 2006


Dear Webb,

I always remind myself that sometimes we, as human beings created in the
image of God, will try to describe something that is truly beyond the limits
of our own language. I think that is what is happening here. True, one-third
of all creatures of the land, sea and air will be destroyed.

BTW, It will become increasingly harder for John to describe the things he
sees due to the limitations of the language. Example, you try to describe a
locust with armor plating as John did. It looks more like a Apache/Cobra
Helicopter, but that is pure speculation. All we can go with is John's
description and end it there.

En Xristwi,

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Webb" <webb at selftest.net>
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Rev. 8:9--what died?


> Carl,
>
> That's a fascinating interpretation of this verse, and one that differs
> dramatically from the ones that I recall hearing. Are you saying that John
> is picturing something like giant waves killing a third of the creatures
who
> live on dry land? "And a third of living creatures drowned in the sea"?
> Given that John is a second-language Greek speaker, is it impossible that
> he's trying, rather clumsily, to talk about all the sea creatures that had
> YUCAS, namely the air-breathers?
>
> Webb Mealy
> p.s. I sent this to you off-list by mistake. I leave it to you to post
your
> reply or some other reply on-list if you wish.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Carl W. Conrad
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 1:20 PM
> To: Harold Holmyard
> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Rev. 8:9--what died?
>
> I think Harold has hit the nail on the head; the sense of KTISMA here
> is simple "creature." I don't think at all that sea-creatures in
> particular are meant here but rather that this is a swallowing up of
> living creatures by flood waters.
>
> On Nov 13, 2006, at 3:57 PM, Harold Holmyard wrote:
>
> > Dear Webb,
> >
> > Sorry that I posted to your personal address, too.
> >
> >> KAI APEQANEN TO TRITON TWN KTISMATWN EN THi QALASSHi, TA ECONTA
> >> YUCAS, KAI
> >> TO TRITON TWN PLOIWN DIEFQARSHSAN
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I can't resist seeing TA ECONTA YUCAS as being a gloss on the
> >> previous
> >> phrase, indicating that he means the air breathing creatures such
> >> as whales,
> >> seals, sea lions, sea birds, dolphins, turtles and so on. It's
> >> hard to see
> >> how a fish or other gill-breathing creature has a YUCH in the
> >> biblical
> >> context.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Any comments on this phraseology?
> >>
> >
> > HH: It may be narrowing down the implication of
> > the term KTISMA. The
> > word can just mean "created thing."
> >
> > Yours,
> > Harold Holmyard
> > ---
> > B-Greek home page: http://ibiblio.org/bgreek
> > B-Greek mailing list
> > B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad2 at mac.com
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>
>
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