[B-Greek] KURIOS hO QEOS hO PANTOKRATWR (Rev. 4:8)

Bryant J. Williams III bjwvmw at com-pair.net
Tue Nov 7 16:25:59 EST 2006


Dear Webb,

Since the phrase is not used before the LXX, then I would think that the
typical person in the Greek speaking areas of Asia Minor would still read it
as a title. I think the key to the entire phrase is the use of the article.
Of course, it may be possible to read it as you translate it "God the
All-Powerful is Lord," but I do not think that it can because of the use
KURIOS fronting the entire phrase. Furthermore, since Revelation is written
primarily to the churches of Asia (chapters 2-3), and secondarily to the
church as a whole. It would be understood to be a title anyway.

En Xristwi,

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Webb" <webb at selftest.net>
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] KURIOS hO QEOS hO PANTOKRATWR (Rev. 4:8)


> Thanks for the information, Bryant. It's good stuff. At the same time,
it's
> not what I'm really fishing for. Maybe it's my weakness in reading Greek,
> but I want to know whether a Koine Greek speaking person, not knowing
> everything you just brought forward, might hear a predication being made
> when presented with the words KURIOS hO QEOS hO PANTOKRATWR.
>
> I feel pretty ignorant asking, but is there any rule of grammar that would
> give the clue to a secular Koine Greek speaker that KURIOS is attributive
> rather than predicative in this phrase?
>
> Webb Mealy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bryant J. Williams III [mailto:bjwvmw at com-pair.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 12:32 PM
> To: Webb; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] KURIOS hO QEOS hO PANTOKRATWR (Rev. 4:8)
>
> Webb,
>
> It is used as title by John in Revelation which is alluding to its OT
usage
> found in the paragraphs below. I read the KURIOS hO QEOS hO PANTOKRATWR,
as
> a title, "The Lord God Almighty" found in Revelation 4:8; 11:17; 15:3;
16:7,
> 14; 21:22. The MT/LXX of Isaiah 6:4 has, "YHWH SeBAOTH." KURIOS = YHWH,
> SABAWQ = SeBAOTH (which is transliterated).
>
> hO DE KURIOS hO QEOS hO PANTOKRATWR is found in Hosea 12:6; Amos 3:13;
5:14,
> 15, 16. There the LXX translates hO KURIOS = YHWH, hO QEOS = 'eLoHEy, hO
> PANTOKRATWR = HaZeBa'oTH.
>
> In fact, PANTOKRATWR is used to translate both Sabaoth and Shaddai and is
> NOT found before the LXX. Job 8:5 has PROS KURION PANTOKRATORA for 'EL-'EL
> We'EL-SHADDAI. (See Colin Brown, Vol. 3, pp 716-718).
>
> KURIOS PANTOKRATWR is used in Zechariah 1:3 (paralleled by KURIOS TWN
> DUNAMEWN, 2x), 1:4, 6, 12 (KURIE) , 14; 81, 2, 3, 4, 6(2x), 7, 9(2x),
11,14,
> 17, 18, 20, 21, 23; Malachi 1:4, 6, 8, 9, 10,11, 12, 13, 14. Every one of
> these instances translate YHWH SABAOTH.
>
> En Xristwi,
>
> Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Webb" <webb at selftest.net>
> To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 11:17 AM
> Subject: [B-Greek] KURIOS hO QEOS hO PANTOKRATWR (Rev. 4:8)
>
>
> > If we assume that hAGIOS hAGIOS hAGIOS consists of three grammatically
> > independent shouts of acclamation, can somebody give me a reason
strictly
> on
> > the basis of Greek grammar (not from LXX or MT of Isa. 6) why the
> following
> > phrase, KURIOS hO QEOS hO PANTOKRATWR, wouldn't look to a Greek speaker
> like
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "God the All-Powerful is Lord!"
> >
> >
> >
> > Webb Mealy
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
> > B-Greek mailing list
> > B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
> >
> > For your security this Message has been checked for Viruses as a
courtesy
> of Com-Pair Services!
> >
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 - Release Date: 11/4/06
> 5:30 PM
> >
> >
>
>
> For your security this Message has been checked for Viruses as a courtesy
of
> Com-Pair Services!
>
>
>
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>
> For your security this Message has been checked for Viruses as a courtesy
of Com-Pair Services!
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 - Release Date: 11/4/06
5:30 PM
>
>


For your security this Message has been checked for Viruses as a courtesy of Com-Pair Services!




More information about the B-Greek mailing list