[B-Greek] En and Eis

frjsilver at optonline.net frjsilver at optonline.net
Thu Nov 2 10:20:30 EST 2006


Yes.  I think that this best agrees with the Hebrew text of _shema_:

   'Hear, Israel!  YHWH is our God, YHWH alone!'

St Paul's Greek -- rightly read -- says the same.

Father James Silver

Monk James
Orthodox Church in America


----- Original Message -----
From: yancywsmith 
Date: Thursday, November 2, 2006 1:24 am
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] En and Eis
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org

> I agree with Iver on this one about the passage in Mark and 
> about the 
> Hebrew and OT background he brings to bear on the translation 
> issue. 
> On the other hand, I think the confession is ambiguous enough in 
> 
> Greek that it could have been read an several ways by different 
> Hellenistic Jews, Jewish Christians and Gentile Christ followers.
> 
> Without the "dummy" subject "there," my translation (of the 
> Greek) 
> would represent one possible way of reading these Greek words: KURIOS
> hO QEOS hHMON KURIOS hEIS ESTIN. Thus,
> 
> The Lord [is] our God! [Only] one is Lord.
> 
> For Paul, this could mean that
> Caesar is not really Lord
> Nor is Sarapis really Lord
> and even the big shot inviting you to a banquet to eat meat 
> sacrificed to an idol is not Lord. Nor is the idol Lord.
> Christ is Lord.
> 
> The use of Adonay and KURIOS as substitutes for the ineffable 
> divine 
> name may have had the effect of canceling the "name" connection 
> of 
> KURIOS in certain contexts, note how Paul compares KURIOS with 
> KURIOI 
> in 1 Cor 8. However I do not mean by this that, if asked, Paul 
> or any 
> other 1st century Jew would have been unaware of YHWH behind the 
> 
> category title, e.g. KURIOS, in Phil 2:10 is still "the name 
> that is 
> above every name" i.e., YHWH.
> 
> Yancy Smith
> yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
> 5636 Wedgworth Rd.
> Fort Worth, TX 76133
> 817-361-7565
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 2, 2006, at 1:38 AM, Iver Larsen wrote:
> 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Anthony Buzzard" 
> >
> >> I am new to the list, but the post quoting Clement and the 
> use of en
> >> (one) rather than eis for God is intriguing.
> >> The point I want to confirm is that the translation of Mark 12:29
> >> "The Lord our God is one Lord" is the natural a correct translation
> >> of KURIOS EMON KURIOS EIS ESTIN. Standard authorities seem to agree
> >> (New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, for 
> example)>> that this is the proper way to render the Greek.
> >> Anyone like to comment on that translation "The Lord our God 
> is 
> >> one Lord."
> >> It seems to me that this is better than "Lord our God, the 
> Lord is 
> >> one."
> >> Anthony Buzzard
> >
> > No, I don't think this is the correct translation, and it is 
> > certainly not the standard if you look
> > at English versions. Since there are two types of translations 
> 
> > nowadays, the literal (form-focused)
> > ones and the communicative (meaning-focused) ones, you 
> consequently 
> > have two more or less standard
> > options:
> >
> > 1. RSV: The Lord our God, the Lord is one
> > 2. TEV: The Lord our God is the only Lord
> >
> > I don't think any of them are quite correct, because KURIOS 
> here is 
> > used for YHWH, this being a
> > quote from Deut 6:4. I would prefer to take this as two short 
> > sentences. The first says "YHWH is our
> > god" and is a statement by devout Hebrews that they do not 
> worship 
> > the gods of other nations, but
> > they have their own god, YHWH.
> > The second sentence says "YHWH is one (person)".
> > A word like hEIS is grammatically an adjective that is often 
> used 
> > substantively. If used in the
> > masculine, the idea is "one (person)". If used in the neuter, 
> the 
> > idea is "one (thing)". That is why
> > I would have to agree with Yancy against George about "one 
> thing" 
> > rather than "one God" for the
> > Clement quote.
> >
> > It really makes no sense to use hEIS as an attributive to YHWH 
> and 
> > say "YHWH our God is one YHWH".
> >
> > The reason that TEV does not retain "YHWH is one" is that this 
> does 
> > not communicate the intended
> > meaning in English. The intended meaning of the original of 
> both 
> > Deut 6:4 and Mark 12:29 is IMO two
> > important statements of creed:
> >
> > 1. YHWH is our god/God
> > 2. YHWH is the only god/God we have
> >
> > The first statement identifies one important contrast to 
> > surrounding nations, namely that YHWH and
> > neither Baal nor other gods is the God of the Hebrew nation.
> > The second statement identifies another important contrast to 
> the 
> > surrounding nations, namely that
> > YHWH is not only their god, but also their one and only god.
> >
> > Iver Larsen
> >
> > ---
> > B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
> > B-Greek mailing list
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> 
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