[B-Greek] TADE in Revelation

Albert Pietersma albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
Thu Mar 16 13:09:18 EST 2006

Dear Iver,
Since the LXX uses both TADE LEGEI and OUTWS LEGEI (EIPEN) for KO AMAR, 
glosses them respectively as "This is what X says" and "Thus says 
(said)."  The question is whether in the LXX we are dealing with a free 
variant or whether there is more to it. Since the issue is of immediate 
relevance for the SO-CALLED two halves of Greek Jeremiah, I deal with 
it to some extent in the introduction to that book, posted on the NETS 
website http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/nets/edition/ More needs to be done 
of course, but a beginning has been made.

On Mar 16, 2006, at 2:32 PM, Iver Larsen wrote:

>> My thought was that it may represent a heavy influence from Ezekiel 
>> and
>> the other prophetic LXX literature. Outside of some use in 1 & 2 
>> Samuel
>> and 1 & 2 Kings, it is rarely used in the LXX...except for the 
>> Prophets.
>> Perhaps with 10% of the verses in Ezekiel using this term and no other
>> LXX text or NT book coming near that percentage, except for Jeremiah 
>> and
>> Zecheriah...with a lot of uses in Isaiah as well!  So in the
>> contemporary literature that was Apocalyptic in (Jewish & Christian
>> first/second century) was this phrase used?  So should we to capture 
>> the
>> flavor then translate this into modern english using King James style
>> phraseology...
>> "Thus sayeth the Lord" to be true to the text...as you are saying?
>> Would that be something to have the NIV suddenly read in a place like
>> this "Thus sayeth the Lord"....
>> David
> I am not able to check usage in contemporary apocalyptic literature.
> Having looked at this a bit more, I no longer think that it is as 
> unusual and marked as the English "thus". TADE seems
> to be the normal word to use in this particular construction where you 
> need a kataphoric demonstrative before LEGEI,
> since hOUTOS is always anaphoric in connection with LEGW. It seems to 
> be a construction that is almost exclusively used
> in prophetic contexts, at least at the time of the NT.
> I would not suggest "thus" for a modern English translation. And if 
> you wanted to indicate a link to the OT prophetic
> books, you would have to use "thus" there, too.
> Iver Larsen
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Albert Pietersma
Professor of Septuagint and Hellenistic Greek
Near & Middle Eastern Civilizations
University of Toronto
Home: 21 Cross Street,
Weston ON Canada M9N 2B8
Email: albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
Homepage: http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~pietersm

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