[B-Greek] TIMWSI TON HUION KAQWS TIMWSI TON PATERA "They should honor the Son just as they honor the Father"
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Fri Jun 2 13:32:54 EDT 2006
On Jun 2, 2006, at 1:03 PM, Danny Dixon wrote:
> Iver, you've suggested that "[s]ense a and c are very close, and they
> reflect the common and basic sense of comparison indicated by KAQWS."
> In L&N sense "a" communicates "to the degree that"/"just as."
> In L&N sense "c" communicates "just as"/"in comparison to."
> You also conclude that "it seems fairly clear that the sense
> intended in
> John 5:23 is sense 1 in BAGD or c in L&N."
> And you point out that BAGD gives sense 1 as "indicating
> comparison: just
> As you say, that "sense a and c are very close," L&N and BAGD
> obviously see
> that similarity since they both see "just as" as an adequate
> translation. I
> am not altogether certain that they are "close" for that reason
> alone, as
> sense 1 in BAGD and c in L&N pretty well mean "in comparison" to in a
> weaker sense than sense a in L&N suggest some semblance of
> EQUALITY, namely
> how close is it for the text to say that the Son receives honor
> because the
> Father has bestowed it upon him as compared with the Son receives
> honor "to
> the degree that" the Father receives it. EQUALITY cannot
> contextually be
> said to be "very close" to a mere comparison (for contextual reasons.)
> If KAQWS in the sense of "to the degree that" meant EQUALITY, then
> the Son
> could turn it around and bestow upon the Father something the
> Father didn't
> have until it was bestowed upon Him.
> Focused clarification on what the Greek is communicating here
> lexically would be helpful. I'm just not sure that saying sense a
> and c are
> similar is helpful. Other thoughts?
I frankly don't understand what all the fuss is about this. Surely
it's not a matter of equality (i.e. "that they should honor the Son
exactly as much as they honor the Father) but rather a matter of
"insofar as they show honor to the Father, they should also show
honor to the Son" (i.e. that honoring the Son is appropriate or
obligatory behavior just as much as is honoring the Father.)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
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