[B-Greek] Ephesians 2:1 What kind of dative in ONTAS NEKROUS TOIS?

William Ross woundedegomusic at gmail.com
Sun Aug 13 01:54:50 EDT 2006


Hmm. ISTM that an instrumental dative would not translate as "dead in" so
that seems to neither agree with my "dead to" nor to the more common "dead
in." Or would you want to say that it is instrumental and yet translates as
"dead in?"

William Ross
VGB, Argentina


On 8/12/06, George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>  Let me correct myself on that one.  I answered without looking it up in
> my Greek text.  I'm afraid I don't function the best with the transliterated
> text (perhaps some can use it but I can't) -- I basically use it to see that
> I'm looking at the correct passage (and I was thinking of an entirely
> different passage).
>
> My, what a string of prepositional phrases follow this.  I hadn't really
> paid attention to that previously.
>
> Abbott in his ICC commentary seems to discount the notion that this could
> be an instrumental dative saying "this is hard to reconcile with the tense
> of συνεζωοποιησε<http://us.f385.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?box=Inbox&Mid=6996_4060524_86338_2809_840_0_16160_1679_4098230933&inc=&Search=&YY=80887&order=down&sort=date&pos=0&view=a&head=b#_ftn1>[SUNEZWPOIHSE]."  I would disagree with him on that.  I would take it as an
> instrumental dative -- "while you were dead through . . . [v. 5] he made you
> alive together with Christ."
>  <http://us.f385.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?box=Inbox&Mid=6996_4060524_86338_2809_840_0_16160_1679_4098230933&inc=&Search=&YY=80887&order=down&sort=date&pos=0&view=a&head=b#_ftnref1>
>
> __________
>
>
> *William Ross <woundedegomusic at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
> Thank you, George.
>
> This would preclude a translation of "dead in" correct? More like "dead
> to"
> or "dead in respect to?"
>
> William Ross
> VGB, Argentina
>
>
>
> On 8/12/06, George F Somsel wrote:
> >
> > I'd tend to call it a dative of respect -- being dead with respect to
> > sin.
> >
> > ____________
> >
> >
> > *William Ross * wrote:
> >
> > The translation "being dead to your trespasses and sins" seems the
> natural
> > and Pauline translation of Eph 2:1 rather than "dead IN."
> >
> > Can someone tell me which locative can be properly invoked to justify
> the
> > "in" reading?
> >
> > Does anyone hold the opinion that the "in" translation is not a
> legitimate
> > translation?
> >
> > My thinking is that the justification that would most likely be offered
> is
> > "dative of sphere" or "dative of locative of sphere" (depending on the
> > classification system subscribed to) but I suppose the justification
> might
> > be a true "locative of place."
> >
> > Here is the passage:
> >
> > "KAI hUMAS ONTAS NEKROUS TOIS PARAPTWMASIN KAI TAIS hAMARTIAS hUMWN"
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > William Ross
> > VGB, Argentina
> > ---
> > B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
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> >
> >
> >
> > george
> > gfsomsel
> > _________
> >
> > ------------------------------
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> >
> >
> >
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>
> george
> gfsomsel
> _________
>
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