[B-Greek] KATA LUKAN 11:52 - HRATE & GNWSEWS

George Young webber_young at yahoo.com
Sat Apr 22 19:40:13 EDT 2006


Dear George Somsel:

I understand that you are an intellectual.  Let me go
further.  You see I really want to understand the
Greek Text, i.e., the Biblical Greek Text, which in
this case was recorded (probably) by a man named
"Luke."  He was also probably a disciple of Jesus,
whom he believed to be the Christ, i.e, the Son of Man
who came down from heaven.  Furthermore, as he states
in his introductory pages, he took special care ro
record - yes, Greek grammar - and yes, the teachings
of Jesus. (KATA LUKAN is a Biblical Greek text). In
this case, he is recording the teaching of Jesus at a
dinner in the house of a prominent Pharisee.  The woe
pronouced upon the NOMIKOIS in this case is VeIlEd. 
Certainly he is referring to their actIoNs (i.e., its
something that they do - and do not do), but my
suspiCion is that he is also referring to something
they do to otherss. In fact, their actions seern... (I
supp ose what that ancient world view would consider
demonic).  Why is it that you are so resistent to my
questions?  For, I really want to understand - FULLY -
what this reading is about.

These are my questions again:
 
> 1.  What is the "key" (KLEIDA)
> 
> 2.  How did the experts in the Law take/hide HRATE
> (aorist ind. act.) it away? Note: Codex Bezae =
> EKRUYATE (aorist).
> 
> 3.  Furthermore, how do  they forbid those entering
> into this knowledge? EKWLUSATE (aorist ind. act.).
> 
> 4. What is the nature of the knowledge that is
> forbidden? GNWSIS
> 
> 5. Finally, why is it forbidden?

Sincerely,

Webber Young.

"KLEIS, -DOS" has a meaning which is clear from the
lexical standpoint.  "GNWSIS, -EWS" likewise has no
lexical difficulties.  It would appear that you
understand the syntax of the sentence so that likewise
must be clear.  As to what is intended by "KLEIS",
that is another question which goes beyond the Greek. 
Regarding "GNWSIS", that is a somewhat later
development even though adumbrations of the later
development can be found.


george
gfsomsel
_________

-- George Young <webber_young at yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear George:


> While your questions are undoubtedly of interest,
> they are also beyond the scope of this list.

Really?
The B-Greek Homepage states: 

"Even basic questions are welcome, provided they are
really about the meaning of the Greek text."

The questions I pose are "really about the meaning of
the Greek text."  For instance, in my first question I
ask, "What is the 'key'."  My supposition is that this
noun is used in a metaphorical way, much like, say,
"seed."  But its the actions of the scribes (or the
NOMIKOIS that I'm interested in exploring.  To
continue, what exactly are they doing?  


> Greek itself is quite clear.  

Enlighten me please.

It is what is understood to intend that is in
question.  

What is the authorial intention?


>I would
> note, however, that I would not go in the direction
> of considering GNWSIS to refer the the concept as
> understood in gnosticism.

Why not?
 
Sincerely,

Webber Young.

 
> -- George Young <webber_young at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear B-Greek:
> 
> There is an intriguing verse in Luke 11:52 (one of
> the
> woes pronounced upon the experts of the law).  In
> 11:52 Jesus says that the NOMIKOIS have "taken away"
> the key of knowledge HRATE THN KLEIDA THS GNWSEWS. 
> I
> hope that perhaps the list might be able to help me.
> 
> The questions I am asking are:
> 
> 1.  What is the "key" (KLEIDA)
> 
> 2.  How did the experts in the Law take/hide HRATE
> (aorist ind. act.) it away? Note: Codex Bezae =
> EKRUYATE (aorist).
> 
> 3.  Furthermore, how do  they forbid those entering
> into this knowledge? EKWLUSATE (aorist ind. act.).
> 
> 4. What is the nature of the knowledge that is
> forbidden? GNWSIS
> 
> 5. Finally, why is it forbidden?
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Webber Young.
> 
>   
> **************************************
> 
> 
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