[B-Greek] Subject: Re: Matt. 28:1 OYE restored to "late" vs "before"

Lars siaxares at yahoo.com
Wed Apr 19 14:07:33 EDT 2006

Attn: Carl Conrad who wrote:
  Transliteration problems:

>   The complication here is this particular point in time of  
> reference is not yet "one sabbaths", it only approaching "one  
> sabbaths".    Since we know from other scriptures this is after the  
> sabbath the presumption for ONE SABBATHS is that it is one day  
> after the sabbath.   But "lightening up into" is a reference to  
> before that period.  So it is not yet "one sabbaths" and thus there  
> is a contradiction here if "one sabbaths" is believed to be the  
> general idiomatic reference to one day after the sabbath.

  CC:  EIS MIAN SABBATWN means "into day one of the week," as the  
translation that you presented above rightly indicates. Here you're  
apparently operating on your own understanding (or misunderstanding?)  
of the Greek phraseology. You really ought to check a lexicon (BDAG  
or another) for the varied usage of SABBATON in the singular and  
plural forms.

  LW:  Please note that you entirely missed the critical point here.  
  It is not simply "into day one of the week" but THi EPIFWSKOUSHi,
  the reference to "lightening up into day one of the week" that is the
  critical point here.   "Lightening up" is used to express something
  that is approaching.  Thus by comparison we find at Luke 23:54 a
  similar reference  with a variation of this term translated as "Now
  it was Preparation, and the evening light of the sabbath was 
  approaching."   The Greek is:
  and sabbath was lighting upon 
  Since this was still preparation, the day before the sabbath, lighting
  upon indicates the approach of the sabbath, thus at Matthew 28:1
  "lightening up into one sabbath" would likely express the approach
  of "one sabbaths"; "one sabbaths" had not as yet occurred.
  Because we know from other reference that this was indeed already
  after the sabbath and on the first day after the sabbath, "one sabbath"
  is not well translated as a reference to the entire day, but better
  references the approach of a subdivision of the day.  The context here
  is that "one sabbaths" begins at sunrise.  As I noted, since sunrise begins
  a major division of the day, one of two, it could be a reference to the 
  "morrow" (EPAURION) that begins at sunsirse and since this would be the
  second morrow of the day, "one sabbaths" could be a reference to one
  morrow past the sabbaths.
  This allows Matthew's reference to "lightening up into one sabbaths" to
  thus be an approaching time of the day not already achieved, specifically
  sunrise.  Of course, it is obvious that this is the first day of the week when
  sunrise occurs, but "one sabbaths" is not a reference to "one day after the
  sabbaths" but more likely to one morrow after the sabbaths.  
  Again, as well in relation to DE not working here as "just before", just
  like "one sabbaths" has to be interpreted by the context and is an 
  idiomatic expression,  "but one sabbaths" is in idiomatic form as well and
  would not thus be expected to mean exactly what it represents, but rather
  needs to be interpreted based on the context.  For that matter DE might
  even function as "but" or "not" but merely repersents a longer phrase that has
  been completely shortened here just as "one sabbaths" is short for "one day
  after the sabbaths."  So you can't simply look at DE MIA SABBATWN and begin
  explaining why DE isn't modifying MIA SABBATWN, because there could be
  several words missing here that are presumed and understood  though unstated.
  This could be like any other idiomatic that is only understood in its unique
  context, just as we express 11:00 p.m. as "twenty-three hundred hours" knowing
  that "hundred" is not a literal reference here but substitutes for a concept.  
  So we must basically understand the reefrence as best we can, fill in the missing
  words and then after that we can begin to see how the rules of grammar might
  Thanks for your critique on the spellings, much appreciated.  And thatnks for the
  references.   Regards,
  Larry Wilson

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