[B-Greek] Eph. 4:11
iver at larsen.dk
Wed Apr 19 02:53:10 EDT 2006
Hi, AF (Al Fisher??)
The Greek MEN ... DE indicates that different ministries are in view.
In your first translation, the fact that these are different is in focus and clearly stated. But I think it gives an
undue focus on the individuals rather than the ministries. In your second translation, there is less focus on the fact
that they are different, but it is still understood. None of the two translations are natural in English.
NLT has a somewhat more natural and freer translation:
"He is the one who gave these gifts to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and
CEV: "Christ chose some of us to be apostles, prophets, missionaries, pastors, and teachers," (Not my favourite
rendering of this verse, because I am a missionary, but not an evangelist.).
God's Word: "He also gave apostles, prophets, missionaries, as well as pastors and teachers as gifts [ to his church ]."
My own translation would be something like:
"Christ gave us apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds and teachers."
I don't think the sentence makes it clear whether the last two terms refer to one or two groups, that may iverlap.
However, from other texts in the NT, my understanding is that the last two are intended in principle to be different
ministries, just as the other three are different. That these ministries are different does not preclude that a
particular peson may function in more than one ministry. For instance, Jesus himself was both an apostle, prophet,
evangelist, shepherd and teacher. You may want to look at earlier discussions of this verse in the archives under 4:11
and under DIDASKALOS.
----- Original Message -----
From: "A. F." <alethof at yahoo.com>
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 12:33 PM
Subject: [B-Greek] Eph. 4:11
Dear B-Greek all,
I have some questions concerning the translation of eph 4:11,
KAI AUTOS EDWOKEN TOUS MEN APOSTOLOUS TOUS DE PROFHTAS TOUS DE EUAGGELISTAS TOUS DE POIMENAS KAI DIDASKALOUS PROS TON
KATARTISMON TWN AGIWN EIS ERGON DIAKONIAS.
The translations I know all present a construction like the following:
And he gave some to be apostles, and some, prophets, and some, evangelists, and some, shepherds and teachers, for the
But is it possible to use:
And he gave the apostles, and the prophets, and the evangelists, and the shepherds and teachers, for the .
Which one represents truly the idea of the Greek text? Can you propose a literal translation with explanation which
explains the reasons?
Is it possible to determine if four or five groups are listed in Eph. 4:11 - are the shepherds and teachers put in one
and the same group (being consolidated by [tous de . kai . ])? What are the pros and cons?
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