[B-Greek] Mt. 28:17 hOI DE EDISTASAN
George F Somsel
gfsomsel at juno.com
Tue Apr 18 10:03:57 EDT 2006
On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 15:57:12 +1000 (EST) Albert & Julia Haig
<albert_and_julia at yahoo.com.au> writes:
> > [AP] If we agree that Hebrew VE DOES NOT mark a shift, we cannot
> at the same time say that VE DOES mark a shift.
> And, quite clearly, I didn't say that it did. I said the semantic
> domain of ve must overlap with that of DE. That does not, in any
> sense, imply that ve marks a shift. The semantic domain of "pet"
> overlaps with the semantic domain of "cats". That does not mean that
> a lion is a pet, or that a dog is a cat.
> > [AP] And there the answer remains: DE marks contrast, but VE does
> not mark contrast.
> Which is what I said.
> > [GS] DE does mark some distinction as has been noted, but what you
> are proposing seems to be not so much a distinction as a contrast.
> DE is not a strong adversitive but "a marker connecting a series of
> closely related data . . ." (BDAG, s.v. "DE"). For what you are
> proposing it seems more likely that ALLA, a stronger adversitive
> would be used. See Mt 9.24 ELEGEN, "ANAXWREITE, OU GAR APEQANEN TO
> KORASION ALLA KAQEUDEI" He said, "Depart for the girl is ** not dead
> BUT sleeps ** "
> > [CC] If we're talking about one group, all of whom are declared to
> be both rich and poor, I would expect the Koine Greek of your
> proposed English sentence to be something like: (a) PLOUSIOI HSAN,
> ALLA KAI PTWCOI, or (b) HSAN PLOUSIOI MEN, PTWCOI DE. But I would
> NOT expect to see the pronoun hOI used with the DE to indicates
> what you're suggesting.
> All the best,
One last note regarding the snippet above. I would not say that "We" in
Hebrew "marks" a contrast (pace above) but I would say that it can be
used EITHER as a continuation or as a contrast (which is usually
understood from the context). It requires "translating by the seat of
your pants" so to speak. DE, on the other hand, does MARK a contrast to
some extent though usually not a complete disjunction.
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