[B-Greek] salt

Steven Lo Vullo themelios at charter.net
Wed Jul 6 22:43:49 EDT 2005


On Jul 6, 2005, at 9:19 AM, thebodyofjesusthenazoraion at juno.com wrote:

> NAU 47•Mt• 4:19 And He said to them, "Follow Me, and I will make you 
> fishers of men."
> Fishers  (from biblwords 6)  <231> a`lieu,j halieus
> Meaning: a fisherman
> Origin: from  a[lj hals (the sea)
> Usage: fishermen(3), fishers(2)
> NAU 50•Joh• 10:10 "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; 
> I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.
> Why do I have to except the definition as fisherman? why not salters? 
> Since the orgin is from hals (the seas
> What about opsarion? Is this not the eggs of the fish?
> NAU 50•Joh• 21:9 So when they got out on the land, they saw a charcoal 
> fire already laid and fish <3795> ovya,rion opsarion placed on it, and 
> bread.

Eva:

You have received several responses to your original query. You have 
not really interacted with any of the arguments that has been set 
forth, much less refuted one. B-Greek is a **discussion** group. The 
way this usually works is that when someone makes an argument for a 
position, others who do not agree respond to that argument point by 
point, or at least they tackle what they consider the best or most 
important points. Then there may come a rejoinder from the first 
poster, etc., etc. In other words, there is **interaction** with one 
another and with one another's arguments. It seems from this present 
post that you have treated the arguments of others as if they never 
occurred. Even so, I  will try one more time to interact with you.

If you want to be taken seriously and to help us to understand your 
position better, please answer the following questions based on the 
texts that precede them:

Matt 4.18 PERIPATWN DE PARA THN QALASSAN THS GALILAIAS EIDEN DUO 
ADELFOUS, SIMWNA TON LEGOMENON PETRON KAI ANDREAN TON ADELFON AUTOU, 
BALLONTAS AMFIBLHSTRON EIS THN QALASSAN: HSAN GAR hALIEIS.

(1) Since you claim that Simon and his brother Andrew were "salters" 
(hALIEIS), could you please explain to us exactly what it is that a 
"salter" does for a living? What IS a professional "salter"? For what 
purpose would one hire a "salter"?

(2) It is explained that Simon and Andrew were casting a fishing net 
(AMFIBLHSTRON) into the sea because they were hALIEIS. It is clear that 
AMFIBLHSTRON is a fishing net. That is incontrovertible (see, e.g., 
Eccl 9.12 LXX). For what purpose, exactly, does a "salter" need a 
fishing net? How is it used in his work? What does casting a fishing 
net into the sea have to do with the job of "salting"?

(3) Why is it that "salting" seems always to be done in a body of 
water? In particular, why would one go "salting" in the sea of Galilee? 
To convert it into a salt water lake?

John 21.3 LEGEI AUTOIS SIMWN PETROS: hUPAGW hALIEUEIN. LEGOUSIN AUTWi: 
ERCOMEQA KAI hHMEIS SUN SOI. EXHLQON KAI ENEBHSAN EIS TO PLOION, KAI EN 
EKEINHi THi NUKTI EPIASAN OUDEN.

(4) Why is it that one would get into a boat (TO PLOION) to go 
"salting"? For what purpose does a "salter" need a boat?

(5) What is it that a "salter" tries to "catch" (EPIASAN) when he goes 
"salting"?

Isa 19.8 KAI STENAXOUSIN hOI hALEEIS KAI STENAXOUSIN PANTES hOI 
BALLONTES AGKISTRON EIS TON POTAMON KAI hOI BALLONTES SAGHNAS KAI hOI 
AMFIBOLEIS PENQHSOUSIN.

Let's translate this with hALEEIS rendered "salters," as you would 
apparently have it:

"And the salters shall groan, and all who cast a hook into the river 
shall groan, and those who cast a dragnet and the anglers shall mourn."

(6) Now let's play a simple game: In the above translation, one of 
these things is not like the others. But which one?

Now let's translate this passage with hALEEIS rendered "fishermen":

"And the fishermen shall groan, and all who cast a hook into the river 
shall groan, and those who cast a dragnet and the anglers shall mourn."

(7) There, now isn't that much better?

Now a few comments on your latest post.

(1) John 10.10 has absolutely nothing to do with the Greek words we are 
discussing and so provides proof of nothing in this discussion.

(2) No, where OYARION is found in the NT (in John) it does NOT mean 
"fish eggs." Just look at the parallel accounts in John 6.9, Matt 14.17 
and 19, Mark 6.38 and 41, and Luke 9.13 and 16. John has OYARION, but 
the others have ICQUS.

(3) At any rate, I have no idea what fish eggs have to do with the 
present discussion. Could you fill us in?
============

Steven Lo Vullo
Madison, WI
MAR student
Trinity Evangelical Divinity School


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