[B-Greek] transcription to Greek and.. John 8:51 "never see death"

Schmuel schmuel at escape.com
Fri Jun 20 13:11:42 EDT 2003


Hi b-Greek,

  Thank you Barry and Ken for your thoughts and references on the transcription
of names from Aramaic and/or Hebrew to Greek, and the case ending issue.

  A tentative conclusion, for your consideration.. if a form of the word is a full Aramaic transcription, but can be a Hebrew word with a case ending change instead, one can only conjecture which language was being represented (based largely on other factors) ?

  And, are all the supposed Aramacisms (where hebraisti is used) of this nature? 
  Do they all have this dual possibility ?  
  That seems a little odd, that they all would fit almost perfectly in two different ways
from two different languages.  Comments ?

===================================================================

Another question :-)

John 8::51-52
 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. 
Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. 
Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, 
 If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. 

In both these passage there are Greek words untranslated in most versions the- "eis aion"
  never see death "for ever"             
  never taste of death "to the age" 

In your view..

What is the significance of these two words, in this passage, and also John 11:26, in terms of .. 
   translation 
   doctrine
   idiomatic usage

It seems that the hearers were simply thinking in terms of physical death (disregarding any
ideas of resurrection, ie. physical death not being permanent) as they immediately switched 
into discussing Abraham, who had died physically.  Ergo, I wonder if eis aion is basically
idiomatic, not  changing the verse substantively ?

=======================================================================
Here is John Gill's commentary.. included just since he usually gives a good sense of a passage,
but he does not touch on the question above.

he shall never see death;
the second death, eternal death, which is an everlasting separation of a man, body and soul, from God: this death shall have no power on such a person, he shall never be hurt by it; and though he dies a corporeal death, that shall not be a curse, a penal evil to him; nor shall he always lie under the power of it, but shall rise again, and live in soul and body, for ever with the Lord: seeing and tasting death, as in John 8:52 , are Hebraisms expressive of dying. 

Shalom,
Steven Avery
Queens, NY
www.messiahresearch.com


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