[B-Greek] After relating these things concerning John

Richard Ghilardi qodeshlayhvh at juno.com
Mon Jun 16 15:36:04 EDT 2003


Dear b-greeker,

Thanks Carl. After reading your post I've changed my humble opinion.
You've convinced me. I didn't look carefully enough at MEMNHTAI and so
hastily judged it to be a subjunctive. Your understanding of PWS makes
good sense and taken together with hWDE (which can, as I have admitted,
mean "thus" or "in this manner") yields very good meaning. I have even
changed my mind about the aorist participle DIELQWN. Its action is
undoubtedly antecedent to the main verb MEMNHTAI. My citation of Smyth is
not germane to this sentence.

I'm glad I have this forum where I can make my blunders in order that the
truth may come out.

Now to answer Peter's questions:

1) The sense of the Greek is not adequately given in the ANF translation
(nor in my own) but Carl has given us a better rendering.
2) What the ANF translation does show (as well as Carl's) is that the
Jesus passage does come after the John passage in the source that
Eusebius was using.

Yours in His grace,

Richard Ghilardi -- qodeshlayhvh at juno.com
New Haven, CT USA

On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:31:57 -0400 "Carl W. Conrad"
<cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu> writes:
> But MEMNHTAI is not subjunctive;it's simply normal 3d sg. pf. middle
> indicative, nor can I see how a subjunctive would be called for 
> under these
> circumstances. Nor, IMHO, does PWS indefinite quite mean "perhaps." 
> I think
> that hWDE PWS should be understood together, and I'd convert the 
> Greek hWDE
> PWS:
> 
> "After going through those matters about John, he also mentions our 
> savior
> in the same account of his composition, more or less thus ..." i.e. 
> I think
> that the force of hWDE PWS is to indicate that he's not citing his 
> source
> verbatim but re-stating the gist of what his source says.
> 
> The text in question was:
> 
> TAU=TA PERI\ TOU= *)IWA/NNOU DIELQW\N, KAI\ TOU= SWTH=ROS H(MW=N 
> KATA\ TH\N
> AU)TH\N TOU= SUGGRA/MMATOS I(STORI/AN W(=DE/ PWS ME/MNHTAI



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