[B-Greek] After relating these things concerning John

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Mon Jun 16 14:31:57 EDT 2003


But MEMNHTAI is not subjunctive;it's simply normal 3d sg. pf. middle
indicative, nor can I see how a subjunctive would be called for under these
circumstances. Nor, IMHO, does PWS indefinite quite mean "perhaps." I think
that hWDE PWS should be understood together, and I'd convert the Greek hWDE
PWS:

"After going through those matters about John, he also mentions our savior
in the same account of his composition, more or less thus ..." i.e. I think
that the force of hWDE PWS is to indicate that he's not citing his source
verbatim but re-stating the gist of what his source says.

The text in question was:

TAU=TA PERI\ TOU= *)IWA/NNOU DIELQW\N, KAI\ TOU= SWTH=ROS H(MW=N KATA\ TH\N
AU)TH\N TOU= SUGGRA/MMATOS I(STORI/AN W(=DE/ PWS ME/MNHTAI

At 11:55 AM -0400 6/16/03, Richard Ghilardi wrote:
>Hi Peter and b-greekers,
>
>I would say that the English is not quite accurate because it does not
>take account of the PWS or the fact that MEMNHTAI is in the subjunctive.
>It also takes no account of the KAI, "also". While hWDE could mean "thus"
>or "in this manner", I don't think it can mean "the following (words)"
>which would have to be TADE or TODE. Here I think it means "here". I
>would improve the ANF rendering in the following way:
>
>"As he relates these things concerning John, he also perhaps makes
>mention here of our Saviour in the same work:"
>
>It may be as you say that Eusebius is implying that the Jesus passage
>comes after the John passage. But it may also be that he is simply saying
>that the Jesus passage is nearby the John passage -- in the same section.
>In the following translation by G. A. Williamson note the words, "in the
>same part":
>
>"After giving this account of John, in the same part of his work he goes
>on to speak as follows of our Savour:"
>
>Now while it is true that an aorist participle usually refers to action
>antecedent to that of the main verb, it may also refer to concommitant
>action. cf. Smyth # 1872c:
>
><< Aorist (simple occurrence). The action set forth by the aorist
>participle is generally antecedent to that of the leading verb; but it is
>sometimes coincident or nearly so, when it defines, or is identical with,
>that of the leading verb, and the subordinate action is only a
>modification of the main action. 2. Coincident: MH TI EXAMARTHTE EMOU
>KATAYHFISAMENOI do not commit the error of condemning me P. A. 30 d, EU
>G' EPOIHSAS ANAMNHSAS ME you did well in reminding me P. Ph. 60 c
>(=ANEMNHSAS ME EU POIWN). >>
>
>So of the 3 translations, ANF, Williamson and mine, I think mine is the
>best, IMHO.   :-)
>
>Yours in His grace,
>
>Richard Ghilardi -- qodeshlayhvh at juno.com
>New Haven, CT USA
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-
>
>
>
>On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 06:33:41 -0700 Peter Kirby <kirby at earthlink.net>
>writes:
>> The Greek text of the Hist. Eccl. of Eusebius, as given on the TLG
>> CD-ROM,
>> states in Book 1, Chapter 11, immediately after the quotation of the
>> John the
>> Baptist passage (18.5.2) in Josephus and before the Testimonium
>> (18.3.3):
>>
>> TAU=TA PERI\ TOU= *)IWA/NNOU DIELQW\N, KAI\ TOU= SWTH=ROS H(MW=N
>> KATA\ TH\N
>> AU)TH\N TOU= SUGGRA/MMATOS I(STORI/AN W(=DE/ PWS ME/MNHTAI:
>>
>> The Ante-Nicene Fathers renders the sentence as follows:
>>
>> "After relating these things concerning John, he makes mention of
>> our Saviour
>> in the same work, in the following words:"
>>
>> What I would like to know is, is the sense of the Greek represented
>>
>> accurately, and, in particular, does Eusebius make the implication
>> that the
>> Jesus passage is to be found after the John passage in the work of
>> Josephus?
>---
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-- 

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/



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