[B-Greek] After relating these things concerning John

Richard Ghilardi qodeshlayhvh at juno.com
Mon Jun 16 11:55:16 EDT 2003


Hi Peter and b-greekers,

I would say that the English is not quite accurate because it does not
take account of the PWS or the fact that MEMNHTAI is in the subjunctive.
It also takes no account of the KAI, "also". While hWDE could mean "thus"
or "in this manner", I don't think it can mean "the following (words)"
which would have to be TADE or TODE. Here I think it means "here". I
would improve the ANF rendering in the following way:

"As he relates these things concerning John, he also perhaps makes
mention here of our Saviour in the same work:"

It may be as you say that Eusebius is implying that the Jesus passage
comes after the John passage. But it may also be that he is simply saying
that the Jesus passage is nearby the John passage -- in the same section.
In the following translation by G. A. Williamson note the words, "in the
same part":

"After giving this account of John, in the same part of his work he goes
on to speak as follows of our Savour:"

Now while it is true that an aorist participle usually refers to action
antecedent to that of the main verb, it may also refer to concommitant
action. cf. Smyth # 1872c:

<< Aorist (simple occurrence). The action set forth by the aorist
participle is generally antecedent to that of the leading verb; but it is
sometimes coincident or nearly so, when it defines, or is identical with,
that of the leading verb, and the subordinate action is only a
modification of the main action. 2. Coincident: MH TI EXAMARTHTE EMOU
KATAYHFISAMENOI do not commit the error of condemning me P. A. 30 d, EU
G' EPOIHSAS ANAMNHSAS ME you did well in reminding me P. Ph. 60 c
(=ANEMNHSAS ME EU POIWN). >>

So of the 3 translations, ANF, Williamson and mine, I think mine is the
best, IMHO.   :-)

Yours in His grace,

Richard Ghilardi -- qodeshlayhvh at juno.com
New Haven, CT USA
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On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 06:33:41 -0700 Peter Kirby <kirby at earthlink.net>
writes:
> The Greek text of the Hist. Eccl. of Eusebius, as given on the TLG 
> CD-ROM, 
> states in Book 1, Chapter 11, immediately after the quotation of the 
> John the 
> Baptist passage (18.5.2) in Josephus and before the Testimonium 
> (18.3.3):
> 
> TAU=TA PERI\ TOU= *)IWA/NNOU DIELQW\N, KAI\ TOU= SWTH=ROS H(MW=N 
> KATA\ TH\N 
> AU)TH\N TOU= SUGGRA/MMATOS I(STORI/AN W(=DE/ PWS ME/MNHTAI:
> 
> The Ante-Nicene Fathers renders the sentence as follows:
> 
> "After relating these things concerning John, he makes mention of 
> our Saviour 
> in the same work, in the following words:"
> 
> What I would like to know is, is the sense of the Greek represented 
> 
> accurately, and, in particular, does Eusebius make the implication 
> that the 
> Jesus passage is to be found after the John passage in the work of 
> Josephus?



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