Fwd: Re: [B-Greek] Col. 1:3
bertdehaan at gosympatico.ca
bertdehaan at gosympatico.ca
Thu Jan 30 19:57:39 EST 2003
> From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
> Date: 2003/01/30 Thu AM 10:52:27 GMT-05:00
> To: "'Biblical Greek'" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: Fwd: Re: [B-Greek] Col. 1:3
> I have been asked to expand and justify my brief response to Bert de Haan's
> question about Col 1:3:
> >From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
> >Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Col. 1:3
> >At 9:03 PM -0500 1/29/03, <bertdehaan at gosympatico.ca> wrote:
> >>Col.1:3 reads; EUCARISTOUMEN TWi QEWi PATRI TOU KURIOU hHMWN IHSOU CRISTOU
> >>PANTOTE PERI hUMWN PROSEUCOMENOI
> >>Is there any way in which the Greek indicates whether PANTOTE belongs to
> >>what precedes it (EUCARISTOUMEN PANTOTE)or to what follows it (PANTOTE
> >>PROSEUCOMENOI)? Thank you.
> >I would construe the PANTOTE with EUCARISTOUMEN: "We thank God ... for you
> >every time--when we pray"
> Here's the text about which the question was raised: with which verb
> PANTOTE should be construed: EUCARISTOUMEN or PROSEUCOMENOI.
> Col 1:3 EUCARISTOUMEN TWi QEWi PATRI TOU KURIOU hHMWN IHSOU CRISTOU PANTOTE
> PERI hUMWN PROSEUCOMENOI
> Now I guess the question I would first ask is, in this formulary part of
> the basic salutation of the Pauline letter, what is the author saying: that
> he prays for/about the addressees constantly, or that he thanks God for
> them when he prays? It may seem like it amounts to the same thing, but it
> seems to me that, regardless of whether PANTOTE could conceivably construe
> with PROSEUCOMENOI (and I wouldn't really dispute that's possible) the
> following passages demonstrate pretty conclusively that either the adverb
> PANTOTE or an equivalent expression accompanies the verb EUCARISTEW in this
> formula regularly.
> 1 Cor 1:4 EUCARISTW TWi QEWi MOU PANTOTE PERI hUMWN ...
> Eph 1:16 OU PAUOMAI EUCARISTWN hUPER hUMWN MNEIAN POIOUMENOS EPI TWN
> PROSEUCWN MOU (OU PAUOMAI EUCARISTWN hUPER hUMWN = PANTOTE EUCARISTWN hUPER
> Eph 5:20 EUCARISTOUNTES PANTOTE hUPER PANTWN
> Phil 1:3 EUCARISTWi TWi QEWi MOU EPI PASHi THi MNEIAi hUMWN ... (EPI PASHi
> THi MNEIAi hUMWN = PANTOTE hUPER hUMWN)
> 1 Th 1:2 EUCARISTOUMEN TWi QEWi PANTOTE PERI PANTWN hUMWN MNEIAN POIOUMENOI
> EPI TWN PROSEUCWN hHMWN, ...
> 1 Th 2:13 KAI DIA TOUTO KAI hHMEIS EUCARISTOUMEN TWi QEWi ADIALEIPTWS,
> followed by a hOTI clause stating what the Thessalonian congregation did to
> make Paul thank God incessantly)
> 2 Th 1:3 EUCARISTEIN OFEILOMEN TWi QEWi PANTOTE PERI hUMWN, ...
> 1 Th 2:13 hHMEIS DE OFEILOMEN EUCARISTEIN TWi QEWi PANTOTE PERI hUMWN ...
> All of which is to say, that is the Pauline formula: it's not so much that
> he prays for his addresses all the time as that, when he prays, he thanks
> God for them every time.
Thanks for your reply and for expanding on it. When I first read your translation I wondered where "when" came from in "when we pray". Now I remember this use of the participle. I was trying to break the sentence up into little phrases but I did't know whether to make the break before or after PANTOTE. Now I see how there is no break there. The length of this sentence got to me. Paul's writings might be a bit too difficult for me yet.
Bert de Haan
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu OR cwconrad at ioa.com
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
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