Nicene Creed

lance w seevers lws39 at juno.com
Sat Jan 18 10:39:54 EST 2003


I was thinking that TO PNEUMA TO AGION was in apposition to TO KURION.
Some of the "early church fathers"("apostolic fathers"?) use QEOS to
refer to IHSOUS XRISTOS. Isn't it possible that they could have used
KURIOS to refer to TO PNEUMA? 
BTW, do they ever refer to TO PNEUMA as QEOS?
Walt Seevers
> 
> In a message dated 1/18/2003 7:45:32 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> spuluka at hotmail.com writes:
> 
> >I'm working my way through CFD Moule's book "The Holy Spirit" 
> (Mowbrey,
> >1978) for a class this semester. On page 43 in discussing the 
> Nicene creed
> >statement:
> >
> >KAI EIS TO PNEUMA TO AGION,
> >TO KURION, TO ZWOPOION,
> >TO EK TOU PATROS EKPOREUOMENON,
> >TO SUN PATRI KAI GIW
> >SUMPROSKUNOUMENON KAI SUNDOXAZOMENON,
> >TO LALHSAN DIA TWN PROFHTWN.
> >
> >The Greek text and punctuation here is from the Greek Orthodox 
> liturgical
> >tradition, Moule does not supply the Greek but offers the following 
> as a
> >"literal" translation.
> >
> >...also in the Holy Spirit,
> >which is Lord,
> >which makes alive,
> >which proceeds from the Father
> >which is worshipped and glorified with the Father and the Son,
> >which spoke through the prophets.
> >
> >My question regards the  sense Moule is making of the article.  I 
> don't
> >understand how we get to a sense of "which" in this construction.  
> I've
> >re-read the chapters on the article in both Wallace and the "big" 
> Robertson,
> >but this translation seems a stretch to me, not a literal one.  But 
> I know
> >enough about Moule and his ability with Greek that I don't want to 
> dismiss
> >it.
> >
> >I'm familiar with the translation of this same section of Greek 
> into Old
> >Church Slavonic from the 9th century.  This is my liturgical 
> tradition.  The
> >interesting part here is that, like most slavic languages, OCS has 
> no
> >articles.  So if the translators understand a Greek article as 
> something
> >other than a specifier, they must supply a word in the 
> translation,
> >otherwise the article drops out.  In this case the article drops 
> from the
> >translation.  If they understood this in the sense of "which" they 
> would
> >likely have supplied a KAK in the translation.
> >
> >In short, I don't understand what in this construction supports 
> the
> >translation of the article as "which."  But I'm assuming there IS 
> something
> >that does.  Thanks for your help.

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