[B-Greek] use of EK in 1 John 4.13 & EN in v16
jhronline at yahoo.com
Sun Feb 23 22:02:52 EST 2003
I realize, of course, that my answers are going to be
simplistic, but I thought I would just take a run at
this. My post is later than others because I have to
await the digest (I can't seem to deal well with the
new setup of the list!--How do I change my
preferences?). I'm sorry for that.
> Firstly, EK in 4:13. BAGD lists this as an
> equivalent of a partitive
> genitive. Does that imply that part of the Spirit is
> given? What
> theological implications does that have practically
> (if that is within
> the scope of this list)? And would EK not be more
> naturally considered
> to be referring to the "source" of the gift/giving
> or the "means" by
> which it was given?
I think it would make more sense if you think about it
in regards to something like FOOD or WATER. If I have
a gallon of water, and if you are thirsty, I may opt
to give you a drink /from/ my water. That means that I
give you a part of what I have in the gallon
(partitive). Or I can give you /from/ my T-bone steak.
That means that I don't give you all of it (because it
is a SHARE), but I give you part of it.
I view the same thing here. God SHARES His Spirit with
us. That means that He gives to us from His Spirit (a
part of His own Spirit). That's just the way that I
see it. I don't know if it's "technical" or if it will
help you any, but that's what I see.
> Secondly, EN in 4:16. Here BAGD has this usage
> under "close personal
> association" - that does not get me any closer to
> understanding what
> John meant by "the love which God has in us". Is
> there any validity to
> this meaning "with reference to"? And what that,
> semantically speaking,
> be the equivalent of (or similar to) a "dative of
> advantage" (i.e the
> love He has for us)?
Personally, I think that it means "among" in cases
like this. I don't think it's an individualistic idea,
but the concept is that God's love is expressed among
us as a group (humanity or "the saved").
As per methodology, I would have to just agree with
what Iver and Mark had to say. Especially, I would
push what Mark has stated: If someone really wants to
be able to distinguish the usages of Greek words, he
or she must read extensively. That is the only way to
get to be more "natural" with the language.
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