[B-Greek] use of EK in 1 John 4.13 & EN in v16

Jim West jwest at highland.net
Sat Feb 22 14:22:30 EST 2003

At 07:06 PM 2/22/03 +0000, you wrote:

>Firstly, EK in 4:13.  BAGD lists this as an equivalent of a partitive
>genitive. Does that imply that part of the Spirit is given? 

perhaps "of" would be a better rendering here.  i.e., "because of the spirit
he has given..."  or maybe "because from the spirit he has given..." in the
sense of giving what you have to live the christian life in terms of the
empowering of the spirit.

>theological implications does that have practically (if that is within
>the scope of this list)? And would EK not be more naturally considered
>to be referring to the "source" of the gift/giving or the "means" by
>which it was given?

i think source is a good way of understanding the preposition.

>Secondly, EN in 4:16.  Here BAGD has this usage under "close personal
>association" - that does not get me any closer to understanding what
>John meant by "the love which God has in us".  Is there any validity to
>this meaning "with reference to"?  And what that, semantically speaking,
>be the equivalent of (or similar to) a "dative of advantage" (i.e the
>love He has for us)?

i think that simply seeing this as "commentary" on john 15 may be closer to
the intention of the author.  just as there one abides "in" christ, so here.

>As well as knowing what you folks consider the answers to be, I ma
>probably even more interested in knowing why.  Am I simply choosing
>"category headings" that "fit" into what I think the passage means, or
>is there validity to these meanings "being more natural"?  

interpretation has occupied students of the bible since augustine (and
before).  indeed, the scribes at qumran interpreted hebrew texts and
tradents of hebrew texts interpreted what they passed on.  what all this
means is that the asking of questions is vaild and important and- frankly-
will always occupy us - for *of the making of books there is no end*.

>Maybe what I am really asking here is if I check the usage of a word in
>BAGD (or equiv.), and if their conclusion does not "fit" in my mind, how
>do I go about establishing why that option was chosen and why my option
>is right or wrong (more likely!) 

you take down as many grammars as you can get your hands on and you read
them- and then you read the commentators- and then you make up your own mind.

>I  want to be a good and faithful exegete of the Greek NT, but I fear
>that I am often a significantly better "eisegete"...

most folk are.  at least you recognize it.  ;-)



Jim West, ThD

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