[B-Greek] John 6:46

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Wed Feb 12 06:36:14 EST 2003


At 1:44 AM -0800 2/12/03, K.Bratanov wrote:
>l1.html
>Hello everybody,
>
>I am very glad I've found a mailng list like this.

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>Could you please help me with a translation of a part of john 6:46, "ho wn
>para tou Theou"
>
>
>
>jn6:46 -û-ó-ü’Ķ-ü’Ä° -û-ó-ü’Äû-û’Ññ -ü’Äû-û-ó-û-Ö
>-ü-Ç-û¬±-ü’Äû-û¬µ-ü-É-û¬± -ü’Äû-û’Ññ-ü’Äö -û¬µ-ü’ă-ü-É-û¬±-û-î-û¬µ-û-Ö
>-û¬µ-û’Ññ -û-ò-û¬
 -û-ó -ü’ă-û-Ö -ü-Ç-û¬±-ü-É-û¬± -ü’Äû-û-ó-ü’Ķ
>-û-ë-û¬µ-û-ó-ü’Ķ -û-ó-ü’Ķ-ü’Äû-û-ó-ü’Äö -û¬µ-ü’ă-ü-É-û¬±-û-î-û¬µ-û-Ö
>-ü’Äû-û-ó-û-Ö -ü-Ç-û¬±-ü’Äû-û¬µ-ü-É-û¬±

Jn 6:46 OUC hOTI TON PATERA hEWRAKEN TIS EI MH hO WN PARA TOU QEOU, hOUTOS
hEWRAKEN TON PATERA

>( with latin letters: jn6:46 ouch oti ton patera tis ewraken ei mh o wn
>para tou theou outos ewraken ton patera )
>
>I've found similar place, though exactly the same, Jn9:16
>
>-û-ó-ü’Ķ-ü’Äû-û-ó-ü’Äö -û-ó -û¬±-û-Ö-û-ë-ü-É-ü’ă-ü-Ç-û-ó-ü’Äö
>-û-ó-ü’Ķ-û-î -û¬µ-ü-ì-ü’Äû-û’Ññ-û-Ö -ü-Ç-û¬±-ü-É-û¬± -ü’Äû-û-ó-ü’Ķ
>-û-ë-û¬µ-û-ó-ü’Ķ -û-ó-ü’Äû-û’Ññ -ü’Äû-û-ó
>-ü-ì-û¬±-û-Ü-û-Ü-û¬±-ü’Äû-û-ó-û-Ö -û-ó-ü’Ķ -ü’Äû-û¬
-ü-É-û¬µ-û’Ññ

ELEGON OUN EK TWN FARISAIWN TINES: OUK ESTIN hOUTOS PARA QEOU hO ANQRWPOS,
hOTI TO SABBATON OU THREI

>(with latin letters: Jn9:16 outos o anthropos ouk estin para tou Theou oti
>to sabbaton ou threi)
>
>As it is used the form "wn" (in jn6:46) and not some "common" verb I am
>under the impresion that the text says:
>
>"that [one] that is staying near/with God [in principle] "  (that is, in
>the context, Jesus the anointed ),
>
>as opposed to "that [one] that HAS COME/BELONGS of(from)/to God "

I'll let others make their own comments on these questions; I would just
offer a preliminary observation: John's gospel and the first letter of John
as well are full of expressions involving the verb EINAI and prepositional
phrases that indicate relationship. They are already there in the prologue:

	1:1b KAI hO LOGOS HN PROS TON QEON
	1:2 hOUTOS HN EN ARCHi PROS TON QEON
	1:18 hO WN EIS TON KOLPON TOU PATROS

In fact 1:18 is the text which might best throw light on the question you
are raising: QEON OUDEIS hEWRAKEN PWPOTE; MONOGENHS QEOS hO WN EIS TON
KOLPON TOU PATROS EKEINOS EXHGHSATO.

and you ought also to take into consideration:

3:31 hO ANWQEN ERCOMENOS EPANW PANTWN ESTIN; hO WN EK THS GHS EK THS GHS
ESTIN KAI EK THS GHS LALEI; hO EK TOU OURANOU ERCOMENOS [EPANW PANTWN ESTIN]

8;47 hO WN EK TOU QEOU TA hRHMATA TOU QEOU AKOUEI; DIA TOUTO hUMEIS OUK
AKOUETE, hOTI EK TOU QEOU OUK ESTE.

18:37 PAS hO WN EK THS ALHQEIAS AKOUEI MOU THS FWNHS

This is not a forum for theological discussion, but I will say that I don't
think these expressions are far removed from the usage in a classic
formulation of the people of the state in which I lived for 40 years: "I'm
from Missouri: you'll have to show me!" What I think is implicit in this
combination of verb "to be" with the prepositional phrase is that something
about one's nature is to be understood by knowing where one derives from.
Thus the expressions in John 8:23 KAI ELEGEN AUTOIS: 'hUMEIS EK TWN KATW
ESTE, EGW EK TWN ANW EIMI; hUMEIS EK TOUTOU TOU KOSMOU ESTE, EGW OUK EIMI
EK TOU KOSMOU TOUTOU.

-- 

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu OR cwconrad at ioa.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/


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