[B-Greek] Genitives in Rom. 2:4

Byron & Linetta Knutson byronk at open.org
Thu Feb 6 12:41:44 EST 2003

Thanks Carl.  I thot of that possibility, but saw no direct statement in the
the lexicons I checked.  I should have checked the examples more closely.

Is there a source somewhere that lists al the NT words that take an object
in something other than the Accusative?

Is there a possibility of having some of the header materials deleted in the
new digest format?  Here is a typical example of what I mean:

Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 14:21:19 -0500
From: Albert Pietersma <albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca>
To: bgreek at ntresources.com
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] LXX perplexity: Wever on Dt 4:1
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This is the normal, occassionally we get worse ones as in this post:

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:45:44 -0600
From: "Jim" <bailey at ckt.net>
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: [B-Greek]
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Please continue Subscription and THANKS. From cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu  Mon
Feb  3 21:39:44 2003
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Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:35:45 -0500
To: "'Biblical Greek'" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] SE in Mark 1:24
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I think this was intended for the list rather than for me alone; our
list-software is configured to send replies to list-messages to the
original sender only; if you want a reply to go to the list also you have
to cc it or fix your settings in your own mail program as "reply to all."

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:36:41 -0600
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] SE in Mark 1:24
=46rom: Steven Lo Vullo <slovullo at mac.com>
To: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>

On Monday, February 3, 2003, at 06:39 AM, Carl W. Conrad wrote:

>> I can't see where Smyth 2668 supports your point?  He seems to be
>> discussing the
>> use of the relative pronoun instead of the indefinite relative or the
>> interrogative, and, unless I am missing something (which is quite
>> possible),
>> does not reference whether or not the pronoun should be considered a
>> predicate
>> or subject.  Whether or no, this is one of those grammatical points
>> that could
>> be read either way, I should think.
> Yes, Smyth =A72668 is the wrong reference, although it does cite the
> construction in question and note that OIDA SE hOS EI and OUK OIDA SE
> hOSTIS EI are the standard patterns--which is the primary point I was
> referring to. I would still maintain that the interrogative word TIS,
> although first in its clause as interrogative words most commonly are,
> is a
> predicate nominative rather than the subject; perhaps that would be
> more
> obvious if it were "I know WHAT you are" than as "I know WHO you are."

There is a good section in Wallace (pp. 42ff.) on distinguishing the
subject from the predicate nominative. His general principle is that
the subject is the **known** entity. The pronoun (explicit or implied
in the verb) trumps all. It will be the subject regardless of the
grammatical tag of the other substantive. The only exception is the
interrogative pronoun, which will always be the predicate nominative.
He states:

"The reason that personal, demonstrative, and relative pronouns
function differently than interrogative pronouns is this: the former
are a substitute for something already revealed in the context (a known
quantity), while the latter are anticipatory of a substantive not yet
revealed (an unknown quantity). One refers back to an antecedent; the
other looks forward to a postcedent" (p. 44 and n. 24).
Steven R. Lo Vullo
Madison, WI</x-flowed>
What I wish it were is pared something like this:

From: Albert Pietersma <albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] LXX perplexity: Wever on Dt 4:1
Message: 2

Byron Knutson

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
To: "Byron & Linetta Knutson" <byronk at open.org>
Cc: <B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 3:47 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Genitives in Rom. 2:4

> At 12:14 AM -0800 2/6/03, Byron & Linetta Knutson wrote:
> >I was wondering why the string of genitives in this verse rather than
> >accusatives (excluding THS CRHSTOTHTOS)?  Is there a simple answer I'm
> >missing at this time of night?
> >
> KATAFRONEW, like many KATA-prefixed verbs, takes genitive complement; each
> of these genitives (except AUTOU, which depends upon the others,
> CRHSTOTHTOS directly, ANOCHS and MAKROQUMIAS implicitly) is the object of
> --
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu OR cwconrad at ioa.com
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/

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