[b-greek]Vocabulary lists (Was: Irregular and deponent Verbs)

Ty tysbgreek at hotmail.com
Tue May 28 03:19:59 EDT 2002


Carlton,

Thank you for the information and especially for pointing me to the
archives.  Carl put into words what I have often batted around about middle
and passive forms.  My reason for asking, however, is in the interest of
building a more accurate understanding of Greek vocabulary not to gain a
better understanding of Voice (though the insights are certainly
appreciated).  The problem is that in reading Greek I sometimes come across
words that do not follow predictable rules.  It only makes sense to me that
I need to memorize these forms so that I, as a conscientious student, can
recognize the difference in meaning and better understand anomalies.  It
only makes sense that somewhere there must exist resources which
exhaustively list all the words and forms of words that must be memorized to
be properly understood.  In other words, I spent all that time memorizing
the luw chart and learning how contract verbs work and how mu, nu, ro,
lambda etc. etc. interact with each other between the stems and the endings
and memorization paid off.  Now I want to know where I can find lists of
everything else I can memorize to improve my reading skills.  This list
would include the aforementioned items and a few various and sundries like
which apparently compound words augment in front of the prefixed preposition
and some more readily available lists like the declension of words that
appear to be irregular because of their origins are so  removed in time and
space that they seem out of place like oida.  So, for my purposes, it does
not matter whether a word is technically irregular or not but whether a word
follows the familiar pattern in an easily recognizable way or deviates in
unpredictable ways, at least when compared to the common paradigms.

I appreciate the information and I hope that someone out there has actually
done something like what I am asking for and that I can find it.  If not I
guess I'll have to do it myself, at least that way I can make it publicly
available so that others can benefit from it without having to pay for
another expensive book.

--Ty Frost



----- Original Message -----
From: <Clwinbery at aol.com>
To: "Biblical Greek" <b-greek at franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 9:21 PM
Subject: [b-greek] Irregular and deponent Verbs


> In a message dated 5/27/02 2:36:36 PM Central Daylight Time,
> tysbgreek at hotmail.com writes:
>
> > Mounce's BBG includes 30 irregular verbs and their forms, if I remember
> >  correctly, and Trenchard's _Complete Vocabulary Guide_  includes a list
of
> >  the nouns which decline with a gender that does not fit their form, I
have
> >  found these lists very helpful.  Does anyone know of a more
comprehensive
> >  list of irregular verbs might be found?  How about a list of deponent
verbs
> >  which indicates which forms are deponent?  While I am on the subject of
> >  Deponent verbs, I have found that different grammars classify deponent
> verbs
> >  differently.  Trenchard indicates that many of the verbs elsewhere
called
> >  deponent are actually rather words used "in pass. in NT," he does not
> >  indicate weather that means that the words have passive meaning or are
> found
> >  in passive form, is there any authoritative source on this? And my
final
> >  question as I attempt to move beyond the intermediate level of
vocabulary
> is
> >  what resources are there on the case irregularities of nouns?  Is there
a
> >  guide to nouns which take a case other than the expected and what cases
> they
> >  take?
> >
> >  Thank you,
> >
> >  --Ty Frost
>
> Ty, there may be a different idea of what an irregular verb is in Greek.
. . .
> We do not count verbs as irregular because they
> have a different spellling of the stem in one or more principal parts,
> especially when they take a 2nd (strong) aorist instead of a SA (weak)
> aorist. There is no way to predict when a verb will take one or the other.
> The basic stem even of a verb like DIDWMI in the first principal part is
> DO/W. This is not irregular since the nature of these verbs is to
reduplicate
> with an Iota in the first principal part. They also tend to be
non-thematic
> in the Present. The same stem serves in the other forms; DW + SW for the
> future, etc.
>
> Concerning "deponent" verbs, you should consult the archives since that
has
> been a regular topic of discussion on the list. Carl Conrad has taught
most
> of us not to use that terminology any more.
>
> Concerning the use of which cases are used "irregularly," I would not call
> these irregularities. The guide I have always depended on is the BAG,
BAGD,
> and now BDAG. I have never thought of making a list of nouns that take,
say a
> genitive as a direct object, since these are not really irregularities but
> habits of speech caused by similar meanings in the verbs with which they
are
> used. We call these genitives of root idea. A basic idea in the verb fits
> better with a certain case and so it was used.



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