Romans 3:23 - USTEROUNTAI

William Skinner thucy72 at
Wed May 15 15:49:33 EDT 2002

--- tmcos at wrote:
> On Tue, 14 May 2002, William Skinner wrote:
> > 
> > I'm new here, but this is such an interesting
> thread,
> > I just had to jump in ;).  
> > 
> > In response to Jeff's question as to which reading
> is
> > better, I think you'd have to say #2.  I don't
> think
> > you can construe a causal link from KAI.  Doesn't
> > just mean "and"? 
> Hi William,
>   While the conjunction KAI can mean and most often
> does mean  "and", it can also mean "also", "though",
> "although", "albeit", "even","as" and "about",
> according to the Liddell and Scott Greek-English
> Lexicon.

None of which are causal, but I see your point and
stand corrected.      

> > Another question... what do you all think DOXA
> means
> > in this passage?  I thought its basic meaning was
> > "reputation; how one seems to others".  Hence good
> > reputation, or glory.  Yet the idea of God having
> a
> > reputation seems kinda funny, no?
> Not really, this comes out more fully in the OT with
> the emphasis on the Name (Ha SHeM) of God. The idea
> of one's name carries with it one's reputation much
> like one would say "You gave me a bad name" or "You
> smeared my name with that scandal". All of these
> refer to one's reputation. The Hebrew equivalent of
> the Greek DOXA is KaVoD and carries with it the idea
> of heaviness, and hence worth and therefore it is
> associated with "glory". Hope this helps.
>                                      Tony Costa
Your connections to Hebrew are very interesting.  I
still don't see what the DOXH/A of God is.  Using DOXH
to mean "reputation" or "name" implies a speaker,
presumably a human one.  Yet to say that the DOXH of
God, if DOXH also means glory of God, depends in any
way on mortals seems untenable.  Can anyone explain
this to me?




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