B. Ward Powers bwpowers at optusnet.com.au
Sun Sep 23 01:45:49 EDT 2001

At 06:32 PM 010922 -0500, Steven R. Lo Vullo wrote:
>on 9/22/01 6:06 PM, B. Ward Powers at bwpowers at optusnet.com.au wrote:
> > Very true: I agree. And as not everyone WILL be saved, this indicates that
> > the will of God is not always done upon earth. Which is why (in the Lord's
> > Prayer) we pray that it shall be. Because the Almighty Sovereign Lord God
> > of the Universe has given to us puny humans such a measure of free choice
> > that we are able to reject his offer of salvation. Such awesome choice!
> > Such tremendous responsibility! But our understanding of this truth flows
> > from what Paul says about God's will for PANTAS ANQRWPOUS in verse 4 of
> > this chapter.
>Dear Dr. Powers:
>With all due respect (and I do respect you greatly), I think these comments
>are out of place on B-Greek, since they are theologically oriented.

I acknowledge that your response to my comment may be valid. I accept that 
my comment is possibly borderline, though I believe it just falls on the 
"acceptable" side of the line: because in large measure the relevance to 
these issues of the meaning of PANTAS ANQRWPOUS is, I think, part of the 
subtext of our discussion.

>liberals on this list would no doubt disagree with your statement "not
>everyone will be saved." And as a Calvinist, I would disagree with just
>about everything you said after that. I think it would be more in keeping
>with the purpose of B-Greek to confine our discussion to what the Greek 
>word PAS may legitimately mean.

This b-greek list is a great many things to a great many people. I 
understand that a number of list members are interested in discussing 
points about koine Greek in the same way as members of another list could 
discuss grammatical points about ancient Egyptian. Others again are 
interested in discussing such points because they assist us to clarify our 
thinking about the meaning of the text of the New Testament, which has very 
special significance for us in a way that the study of ancient Egyptian 
does not.

In consequence it is a frequently arising problem: how far we can 
legitimately go, on this list, in discussing exegetical questions arising 
out of the passages we look at together, and consequent theological 
considerations. After all, the Greek NT - the primary focus of this list - 
is the basis for our theology.

The verse in question (1 Timothy 2:4) states that God wills/wishes/desires 
(QELEI) for PANTAS ANQRWPOUS to be saved (SWQHNAI). My comment raised the 
question (and ventured an opinion) on whether this QELEI would in fact be 
fulfilled; and thus it reflected upon the meaning of the Greek of this verse.

You have taken issue not only with my making the comment I did, but with 
the contents of the comment itself. I respect your position, and your 
disagreement with me. In my College we have some faculty and students who 
are Arminian and some who are Calvinist, and some who try to be in between, 
and some who haven't yet worked out what to make of the relevant 
Scriptures. A happy consequence is that we seek to understand and respect 
our differing views, and see how close we can get to acknowledging a 
measure of validity in each other's positions.

I am of the view that hOS PANTAS ANQRWPOUS QELEI SWQHNAI is one such 
relevant Scripture, and discussing its implications is a valid pursuit. But 
I agree with you, Steven, that we are to centre any discussion we have 
around what the Greek is saying. Though not just the word PAS: we should 
discuss it in the context of the Greek of the whole verse.

With full respect to those who have come to other conclusions,



Rev Dr B. Ward Powers        Phone (International): 61-2-8714-7255
259A Trafalgar Street          Phone (Australia): (02) 8714-7255
PETERSHAM  NSW  2049      email: bwpowers at optusnet.com.au
AUSTRALIA.                         Director, Tyndale College

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