Luke 18:11 -- Iver Larsen's suggestion
danielrr at eresmas.net
Sun Sep 9 18:16:32 EDT 2001
>Carl W. Conrad wrote:
>Iver, do you not think that the word-order of hO FARISAIOS STAQEIS TAUTA
>PROS hEAUTON PROSHUCETO makes this questionable? It certainly appears to me
>that PROS hEAUTON is harder to construe with STAQEIS than with PROSHUCETO.
>I don't question at all that PROS + acc. regularly means "near" or
>"at"--but the phrase PROS hEAUTON in the sense of "by himself" still seems
>strange to me; I would expect rather something like MONOS STAQEIS.
IMO, the word order O( FARISAI=OS STAQEI=S PRO\S E(AUTO\N
TAU=TA PROSHU/CETO is probably the main argument in favour of the
interpretation of STAQEI=S and not PROSHU/CETO, governing PRO\S
E(AUTO\N in Luke. (Luke still places about the 19% of the
prepositional complements of a verb before the verb, but when it does
in main sentences, he seldom places a complement between the CP and
the governing verb. There are, of course, exceptions like 6.44). I
think Iver Larsen has given a nice list of parallels (3.9, 10.39,
22.56 at lest; I am not so sure about the value of the rest) that
reinforces this interpretation. Maybe it was an idiom that nobody has
studied before. I know that it is still perfect syntax and gives
very good meaning to construct the prepositional phrase whit the main
verb, but whenever I come to this sentence, I read PRO\S E(AUTO\N
with STAQEI=S, and then I remember that most interpreters construct
it with PROSHU/CETO...
>At 5:20 PM +0200 9/9/01, Iver Larsen wrote:
> >This is not a special usage of PROS. Let me give a few examples. Since you
>>like to restrict yourself to Luke, let's do that:
>>Lk 3:9 hH AXINH PROS THN RIZAN TWN DENDRWN KEITAI
>>the axe is placed towards/at/by the root of the trees
>>Lk 10:39 PARAKAQESQEISA PROS TOUS PODAS TOU KURIOU HKOUEN TON LOGON AUTOU
> >She sat down towards/at/by the feet of the Lord and listened to his word
> >Lk 22:56 IDOUSA DE AUTON PAIDISKH TIS KAQHMENON PROS TO FWS
> >A certain servant girl saw him sitting at/by the light
> >All of these involve movement towards something. Sometimes the movement is
>>completed so that we see the person sitting at/near/by a place.
>>Therefore, the meaning "by/at" in this sense is well attested.
>>In Lk 18:11 we saw an aorist passive participle of hISTHMI - having placed
>>himself. He had already moved to a place where he could stand by himself or
>>at his own (place).
> >I am afraid I don't see the problem with this usage. It seems to be good
Daniel Riaño Rufilanchas
POR FAVOR, tomad nota de mi nueva dirección de correo: danielrr at eresmas.net
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