[Fwd: Tense of TETAGMENOI in Acts 13:48]

James S. Murray jsmurray at execpc.com
Thu Jul 1 20:04:23 EDT 1999

clayton stirling bartholomew wrote:

> > Greetings everyone:
> >
> > I would appreciate some help in understanding the use of verb tense in
> > dependent clauses.  The text reads;  ...KAI EPISTEUSAN OSOI HSAN
> > TETAGMENOI EIS ZWHN AIWNION.  I take the dependent clause as an
> > adverbial relative clause, either of condition or possibly comparison
> > (yes?).  Is the use of the periphastic pluperfect relative to the main
> > verb, implying the action occurred prior to the action of the main verb,
> > or is this only true with participles (non-periphrastic, that is)?  I'm
> > just interested in the grammar, please.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > Jim Murray
> > Racine, WI
> Jim,
> Why adverbial? I have not spent hours pouring over this text but at
> first glance OSOI HSAN TETAGMENOI EIS ZWHN AIWNION appears to limit the
> subject of EPISTEUSAN. The relative clause tells me something about the
> agents not something about the action.

I struggled over whether to take it as an adjectival clause or as an adverbial
clause indicating to what extent the Gentiles believed.  Wallace gives
examples of clauses beginning with hOSOS (correction from my original post)
used adverbally.  Is it common for hOSOS to introduce adjectival clauses?  I'm
a small greek, so bear with me.  I find I learn better if I take a stab at it
first and then figure out what I did wrong.

> Your second question about the time of TETAGMENOI is one for the aspect
> geeks. I would say yes, for sure, prior to the action of the main verb
> but no sooner would I get the words out of my mouth than some advocate
> of systemic functional linguistics would jump all over me and point out
> that I just don't understand how all this stuff works.
> In the morning there will be some mega greeks back on line after a good
> nights sleep and they can help you with both of these questions.
> --
> Clayton Stirling Bartholomew
> Three Tree Point
> P.O. Box 255 Seahurst WA 98062
> PS
> Your final comment:
> >I'm  just interested in the grammar, please.
> I assume by this you mean you don't want comments like: TETAGMENOI is
> the eternal  pluperfect indicating that this action took place in the
> eternal councils of the ontological Trinity . . . electing . . .


> No danger. I wouldn't make a comment like that because it would violate
> b-greek rules. :-)))))))))

My thoughts, exactly.



Jim Murray
Racine, WI

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