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  • From: dhondt <dhondt@eircom.net>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] [growingsmallfarms] Rotating solanaceous crops
  • Date: Sat, 28 May 2016 21:20:48 +0100

The John spoken of grew potatoes without ever spraying in West Cork, Ireland for 30 years. Being on the SW slope of a mountain our rainfall was substantially more than in even most of Ireland.
And we started off on subsoil and rock. where it was impossible to put in drains. Where we could do that the drains filled up with peat/turf debris in a year or two.
So we grew potatoes in compost spread out over the rock year after year. And after 30 years we had quite a good soil that needed no drains since there were plenty of worm holes.

We soon noticed when we were still rotating that volunteer potatoes (and you always have those if you don't use roundup) did extremely well so we tried not rotating and still had very good results. The only thing special we did was to put all potato stems, leaves and roots down right where they had grown and cover the lot again with a thin layer of compost.

Taigasc (State agricultural research) confirmed my findings but concluded after tests that my method was not easy to commercialize. To patent this system you need to know exactly which species of soil organism seems to eat and suppress blight. And then you would need to find a way to culture it in vitro before you could turn it into money. I did not want to waste my life doing that (and I have some practical experience) And Taigasc did not either. They went for a gmo potato. And they probably still get paid by the chemical industry for telling farmers to spray.

One more thing. I mixed up a great many varieties when planting and grew about a hundred new potatoes from real seed. Some varieties such as the old lumper I was never able to grow without them dying of blight but that event was not enough to make the other potatoes get diseased.

John

On 28/05/16 06:51, scrooge McDuck wrote:
One of the few things I know about is Irish weather. Potato Blight is linked with damp soil, such that the Irish Met Office issues Blight warnings & advises farmers to spray. Much for the soil is poorly drained clay, rain here is unremitting in all 4 seasons, but not monsoon like, so conditions are not optimal. Better drainage might help prevent suitable conditions for Blight.


--

Declan Moriarty
Sent from my Android

On 27/05/2016, 21:14 Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com> wrote:

> My garden is very small and I don't have enough room to follow a
good
> rotating schedule for these crops. Is there any way to shortcut this
> process to kill the fungus, etc that damage them? The only
option I know is
> to not plant some of my favorites.


John in the sanet-mg mailing list (now a Google Group) has stated many
times that he has been able to grow potatoes in Ireland without
interference from disease, i.e. blight and that he has accomlished
this
through application of good compost on his garden soil, implying that
beneficial microorganisms outnumber and devour the predatory plant
disease-causing ones. Maybe this method will work for tomatoes too. My
thoughts are that application of rock dust soil amendments willbe
of great
benefits as they will feed the beneficial microorganisms so they can
establish larger colonies and keep soil healthy.

These sites will probably be the most help:

USDA NRCS
Soil Biology
http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/main/soils/health/biology/
The online Soil Biology Primer is an introduction to the living
component
of soil and how it contributes to agricultural productivity and
air and
water quality. The Primer includes chapters describing the soil
food web
and its relationship to soil health and chapters about soil bacteria,
fungi, protozoa, nematodes, arthropods, and earthworms.
The online Primer includes all of the text of the printed
original, but not
all of the images of the soil organisms. The full story of the
soil food
web is more easily understood with the help of the illustrations
in the
printed version.Printed copies of the Soil Biology Primer may be
purchased
from the Soil and Water Conservation Society.
Go towww.swcs.org <http://www.swcs.org>

<http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detailfull/soils/health/biology/?cid=nrcs142p2_053868>
Soil Food Web
By Elaine R. Ingham

http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detailfull/soils/health/biology/?cid=nrcs142p2_053868
Soil Biology Primer Chapters

- Overview

<http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detailfull/soils/health/biology/?cid=nrcs142p2_053860>
- Soil Food Web

<http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detailfull/soils/health/biology/?cid=nrcs142p2_053868>
- Food Web & Soil Health

<http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detailfull/soils/health/biology/?cid=nrcs142p2_053865>
- Soil Bacteria

<http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detailfull/soils/health/biology/?cid=nrcs142p2_053862>
- Soil Fungi

<http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detailfull/soils/health/biology/?cid=nrcs142p2_053864>
- Soil Protozoa

<http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detailfull/soils/health/biology/?cid=nrcs142p2_053867>
- Soil Nematodes

<http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detailfull/soils/health/biology/?cid=nrcs142p2_053866>
- Soil Arthropods

<http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detailfull/soils/health/biology/?cid=nrcs142p2_053861>
- Earthworms

<http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detailfull/soils/health/biology/?cid=nrcs142p2_053863>

The roots of your health: Elaine Ingham on the science of soil
by Lynda Brown
<http://sustainablefoodtrust.org/?post_type=contributors&p=8909> on 6
March, 2015 in Farming
<http://sustainablefoodtrust.org/articles/?category=farming-2>

http://sustainablefoodtrust.org/articles/roots-health-elaine-ingham-science-soil/

Elaine Ingham
Soil Foodweb, Inc.
FAQ -- Frequently Asked Questions
http://www.soilfoodweb.com/FAQ.html

she is saying that tomatoes prefer a fungal dominated environment as
opposed to bacterial for brassicas
application of fungal dominated compost from woody biomass would
be in order
<>
Compost Teas: 24 hour, AACT, EM, IM, BD & fermented plant extracts
any of these might help
here are other URLs to more info on this:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/compostteas
message archives:
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/compostteas/
message archives for the compost tea mailing list from Jan 2002
through Jan
2007
https://sites.google.com/site/compostteabrewing/
Introduction To Effective Microorganisms (EM) by Vinny Pinto

https://sites.google.com/site/biointensivefarming/introduction-to-effective-microorganisms-em-by-vinny-pinto
Effective Microorganisms (EM)

https://sites.google.com/site/biointensivefarming/effective-microorganisms-em

And then there is soil remineralization for production of
"nutrient dense"
foods.
Remineralize the Earth <http://remineralize.org/>
*remineralize*.org/
*Remineralize the Earth* ... Learn what remineralization is all
about, and
how to apply rock dust to your garden or farm. ... remineralization
advocates and activists.

John D. Hamaker - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Hamaker
Wikipedia
John D. Hamaker (1914–1994), was an American mechanical engineer,
ecologist, agronomist .... By assuming the task of remineralizing the
Earth's soils, just like glaciers do during an ice age,
remineralization
would create fertile soils

How to Remineralize the Earth | OC Digital - Organic Connections
organicconnectmag.com › Food & Nutrition › Farms & Farmers
“We can address this by returning minerals to the soil just as the
earth
does. ... Just ask Dan Kittredge, executive director of
Remineralize the
Earth

Why Rock Dust Is the Future of Gardening | OC Digital
organicconnectmag.com › Food & Nutrition › Grow It
We talked with Joanna Campe, president of Remineralize the Earth,
to get
the dirt on rock dust and how remineralization is the future of
gardening
and farming

More:

*Compost Tea, Soil Foodweb, Soil Quality Discussion*
Archive 1

<http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/SoilWiki/message-archives/composttea+soilfoodweb+soilquality/1/maillist.html>

http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/SoilWiki/message-archives/composttea+soilfoodweb+soilquality/1/maillist.html
Archive 2

<http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/SoilWiki/message-archives/composttea+soilfoodweb+soilquality/2/maillist.html>

http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/SoilWiki/message-archives/composttea+soilfoodweb+soilquality/2/maillist.html
Archive 3

<http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/SoilWiki/message-archives/composttea+soilfoodweb+soilquality/3/maillist.html>

http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/SoilWiki/message-archives/composttea+soilfoodweb+soilquality/3/maillist.html
Archive 4

<http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/SoilWiki/message-archives/composttea+soilfoodweb+soilquality/4/maillist.html>

http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/SoilWiki/message-archives/composttea+soilfoodweb+soilquality/4/maillist.html
Archive 5

<http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/SoilWiki/message-archives/composttea+soilfoodweb+soilquality/5/maillist.html>

http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/SoilWiki/message-archives/composttea+soilfoodweb+soilquality/5/maillist.html
Soils In Biological Agriculture

<http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/permaculture/mailarchives/discussion-threads/soil-quality>

http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/permaculture/mailarchives/discussion-threads/soil-quality
Remineralize the Earth

<http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/orgfarm/remineralization/remineralization.selected-writings>

http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/orgfarm/remineralization/remineralization.selected-writings
Glomalin: Hiding Place for a Third of the World's Stored Soil
Carbon - ARS
Bulletin <http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/sep02/soil0902.htm>
http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/sep02/soil0902.htm
*Links, Bibliographies & Services*
PMAC Soil Quality Resources (excellent)
<http://www.pmac.net/slqual.htm>
Soil Quality Links & Literature
<http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/soil-links+lit.html>
http://www.ibiblio.org/london/soil-links+lit.html

[orangegrapevine] TAG=aquaponics, composttea, EM, ACT, IMO, KNF, AACT,
BOKASHI
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/orangegrapevine/T3iAXhYpiAA
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21topic/orangegrapevine/T3iAXhYpiAA>

[orangegrapevine] Aquaponics & Compost Tea
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/orangegrapevine/CGL-dgJ0ViY
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21topic/orangegrapevine/CGL-dgJ0ViY>

The compost_tea mailing list has one of the best collections of
information
on compost tea making and using and use in aquaponics:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/compost_tea/info run by Jeff
Loewenfeld
who has written several world class books on the microbiology of
compost
tea - well worth adding to your library - just discovered a new CT
list:

Gardening with Compost Tea
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/gardening_with_compost_tea/info

Another compost tea list is here and has many things of interest
in its
archives
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/compostteas
Compost Teas: 24 hour, AACT, EM, IM, BD & fermented plant extracts
Archives:https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/compostteas/
<https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/compostteas/>

More mining of my permaculture list for aquaponics and compost tea
information:
use this unique Google search tool, the site: command in the
search dialog
box
site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture aquaponics
returns:

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3A+lists.ibiblio.org%2Fpipermail%2Fpermaculture+aquaponics&amp;ie=utf-8&amp;oe=utf-8
and for ibiblio only, five or more pages of links:

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3A+lists.ibiblio.org%2Fpipermail%2Fpermaculture+aquaponics&amp;ie=utf-8&amp;oe=utf-8#q=site:+lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture+aquaponics+site:lists.ibiblio.org
(please ignore posts with political opinion from people who got up
on the
wrong side of the bed :-)
This particular post will probably be of great interest to you:
[permaculture] EM, IMO, KNF, compost tea, AACT, bokashi, etc
resources.
Part 1
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/2012-October/041826.html
[permaculture] EM, IMO, KNF, compost tea, AACT, bokashi, etc
resources.
Part 2
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/2012-October/041828.html

Here is a long list of aquaponics related links
http://www.i55mall.com/aquaponics/links.shtml

<>

[compostteas] EM, IMO, KNF, compost tea, AACT, bokashi, etc
resources. Part
1

https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/compostteas/2012-October/000604.html

[compostteas] EM, IMO, KNF, compost tea, AACT, bokashi, etc
resources. Part
2

https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/compostteas/2012-October/000605.html


/ecolandtech/SoilWiki/message-archives/composttea+soilfoodweb+soilqualityhttp://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/SoilWiki/message-archives/composttea+soilfoodweb+soilquality/
BDNOWhttp://www.mail-archive.com/bdnow@envirolink.org/
Indigenous Microorganisms + Korean Natural Farming

Associationhttp://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/SoilWiki/message-archives/composttea+soilfoodweb+soilquality/5/msg00012.html

Supplemental Resources on Effective Microorganisms
(EM) and Indigenous Microorganisms (IMO)

http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/SoilWiki/message-archives/composttea+soilfoodweb+soilquality/5/msg00138.html

-

Lawrence F. London
lfljvenaura@gmail.com
https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
https://ello.co/lflondon
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