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  • From: "John D'hondt" <dhondt@eircom.net>
  • To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Extinction of the species Man ? H2BO&KYAG
  • Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 18:46:06 -0000


While I am deeply concerned with global climate change, social inequality,
the rapid growth of fascism in our governing bodies, and economic
malfeasance that supports all of these maladies

Your list of worries could be greatly expanded Scot. For me there is also the massive EM (electro-magnetic) pollution that is now everywhere where it was absent 50 years ago. There is global engeneering with aereal spraying, HAARP and most recent the lunatic idea to get rid of the Van Allen belts. And there are these huge quantities of persistent toxins released in the environment. And I am sure I have forgotten to mention many others.
I also think there is a serious amount of luck involved in surviving as a permaculturalist. None of us will be able to stop an oil or gas pipeline even through the middle of our property or fracking that will poison all the water for many miles around.
And then there are ever more new laws and regulations that make much of what we do borderline illegal.




, I am not in the least
deterred from the path I am on. I believe that permaculture offers all of
the tools we need to create a better way to live and I don't see any other
game out there that does as good a job, when done right and with integrity.
Even if mankind was due for extinction within the next twenty years what
would you radically change about your daily life and your relationship with
others??

With this last bit I can only agree completely. Supposedly Martin Luther (16th century) was asked once what he would do today if he were certain the world would come to an end tomorrow. His answer was that he would put all his apple seedlings from their pots in the ground today. I think we would agree that this is still a valid answer.
John

Thanks for indulging me!

Scott Pittman





"To change something build a new model that makes the existing model
obsolete" Buckminster Fuller


-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Toby Hemenway
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 12:24 PM
To: permaculture
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Extinction of the species Man ? H2BO&KYAG

In the immortal words of Larry Santoyo:

"Then, let's just die."

I don't think saving the planet or the human species or civilization are
goals worth contemplating--no more achievable or worth wasting resources on
than keeping the sun from burning out in a few billion years. But what is
quite achievable is saving myself and any friends who want to play with
me--and creating models for others to do that--and that's what I'm focused
on. And I am having a wonderful time doing it, rather than wrecking my spine
and getting a terrible taste in my mouth by trying to master
auto-ass-kissing.

I think "it's too late to do anything" is a harmful and false message. It's
illogical: if it's true, then it's pointless to waste time talking about it,
and if it's not true, then you're spreading fear and despair unnecessarily.
Since you can never, ever know if it's true, given all the other choices of
message we could have, it's unethical to spread it. The inaction, despair,
and fear that it breeds are the worst frameworks for decision-making. It's
the dumbest kind of dead-end street to waste time on! And it sure ain't
permaculture.

Human extinction would take centuries at the least, and more likely
millennia, and will be avoided by lots of tiny, local decisions rather than
giant global plans. The loudest advocate of near-term human extinction is
Guy McPherson, and he's had to utterly distort the scientific evidence to
make his case:

http://fractalplanet.wordpress.com/2014/02/17/how-guy-mcpherson-gets-it-wron
g/

Guy and his ilk are unfortunate cases of confirmation bias, only hearing
evidence that supports their theory.

The most common cause of whole-species extinctions, speaking as a former
geneticist with a shelf-full of books and papers on the subject, is not
resource depletion, but climate change. The most common cause of extinctions
of local populations (rather than widespread species) is competition for
resources by more fit variant populations (think Neanderthal vs us), and the
next is predation to extinction. Resource depletion runs a far third (or
maybe 4th, after epidemic), and usually affects small sub-populations only
(think rabbits on a small island). And climate change, for local populations
(emphasis on local), can be dealt with.

Like the joke says, I don't have to outrun the bear--I just need to outrun
you (okay, not you, but the fools who refuse to do anything because they
think nothing can be done; which is the point of the joke).

If I were being truly selfish, I'd encourage others to do nothing; it would
better my own chances to get their stuff when they die off. Hey, maybe
that's the point of that message!

But most extinctions are an artifact of evolution--the species drift and
shift over time into a different species, rather than get wiped out. At our
distance in the fossil record, it just looks like they died without
offspring, but they had offspring who were subtly different, generation
after generation. E.g., the dinosaurs are still with us; they just are
smaller and have feathers now. Humans will probably do something like it, as
we already have over the last two million years.

Toby
http://patternliteracy.com


On Mar 19, 2014, at 10:43 PM, Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
wrote:

Yeah...finally the news is out...something I have been quietly commenting
on for a few years now. For many years we talked of "Saving the Planet"
but
then we realised the planet can do very nicely by itself, and always has.
The reality is about saving the species...after all there is such a thing
as species extinction. And, when we research the reasons for most species
extinction it is due to total exploitation of its resources, generally, by
itself....so...does that ring a bell. Yeah well its time to start runnin
workshops...and we all love workshops....but the next wave of workshops
will be on How 2 Bend Over and Kiss Your Arse Goodbye. As Schumacher
said...sometime ago...its all too late we are over the tipping point. So
not even David Holmgrens scenarios on decline design can save us now. It
is
suggested that even if we plantedt the world in trees ..over the next five
years...it is still too late. Besides the economic policy of Rockerfella
and Rothchild who own the world and manipulate every aspect of every
ecomomy are not into planting trees so...who wants to come to my next
workshop ?. Maybe I should offer this....H2BO&KYAG... at the innaugrual
Nth American Permaculture Conference...
Like to join me on that one Toby or Scoty? ...how about you Skeeta ?.
Albert..how about you ?.....Steve Hart



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https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech pioneers -- who are designing ecological land use systems with integrated elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced nature-compatible human habitat



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