permaculture

[Neil Bertrando <neilbertrando@gmail.com>]

assuming your place is like the photo...

you might be able to do something similar to SALT using contour post
hedgerows to build up sediment and mulch, or rock mulch on contour again to
build up terraces over time.  dependent on sediment and water supply (rate
and qty).

I think planting pickets or moving rocks by hand on steep slopes fits the
category of hard labor


On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 7:04 AM, Jay Woods <woodsjaya@gmail.com> wrote:

> That is because there is a hidden variable here. In order to maintain my
> health I must put in an hour of hard labor per day. I choose to do it
> building
> up something "extremely detail intensive, technically difficult
> terraforming"
> that requires a lot of hard labor. The same amount of love could be
> lavished
> on house building but on a limited budget and for scope, the terraforming
> uses
> up more time for the same level of pretty.
>
> I am not advocating terraforming 40 acres - that amount of ground will be
> left
> in pinyon pines and nut gathering in mild competition to the pinyon jays.
> I am
> expecting to terrace an acre around the house for a food forest.
>
> On Tuesday, January 07, 2014 07:34:15 PM Neil Bertrando wrote:
> > seems like diminishing returns to me.  why not leave the land for bird
> > nesting and other wildlife use that can be harvested by less intensive
> > means than extremely detail intensive, technically difficult
> terraforming?
> >
> > least change for greatest effect type of application in my opinion.
> >
> > this is the type of scenario I'd run through a land components analysis
> and
> > triple check for type I errors before doing something.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 6:34 PM, Pete Gasper, Gasper Family Farm <
> >
> > farmer1@gasperfarm.com> wrote:
> > > Look into the terracing construction methods of the Inca's. Sounds
> similar
> > > to the things Lawrence discusses for the Asian terrases and maybe more
> > > along
> > > the lines of the solution you need.
> > >
> > > They were creating productive terracing systems on what for all
> intensive
> > > purposes looks like near vertical rocky slopes.
> > >
> > > On 01/07/2014 10:14 AM, Jay Woods wrote:
> > > > I appreciate the effort you went through to get the references. I
> have
> > >
> > > read them all.
> > >
> > > > But (he wrote with a smile) they are not designed for my constraints:
> > > thin soil, steep
> > >
> > > > slopes, little water, and 30 miles to the nearest Keystone paver. The
> > >
> > > following gives an
> > >
> > > > idea of the lay of the land:
> > > >       *  http://www.inmagine.com/imb091/imb0910770-photo
> > > >
> > > > Unfortunately, the rock formations are not layer cake geology either
> > >
> > > here in Nevada in
> > >
> > > > the basin and range province.  The closest I have been able to come
> to
> > >
> > > techniques is:
> > > >       *
> > >
> > > http://www.merip.org/mer/mer254/water-conflict-cooperation-yemen
> > >
> > > > Unfortunately, the water rights have been stripped from the land and
> > >
> > > well drilling is not
> > >
> > > > an option. The article plainly indicates that it wasn't much of a
> > >
> > > solution anyway.
> > >
> > > > Somehow I need to build terrace walls that are sealed against water
> > >
> > > leakage and that
> > >
> > > > insulate enough that cold weather won't heave the walls using only
> > >
> > > readily available
> > >
> > > > local materials which means rocks, dirt, and pinyon pine and plenty
> of
> > >
> > > hand labor. As I
> > >
> > > > am used to mining, converting some of the local limestone to
> quicklime
> > >
> > > has never
> > >
> > > > been a difficult task.
> > > >
> > > > On Monday, January 06, 2014 08:05:01 PM Neil Bertrando wrote:
> > > >> In general for construction, earthworks and other technical
> information
> > > >> require detailed calculations, specs, design parameters, etc.  I
> refer
> > >
> > > to
> > >
> > > >> FAO, NRCS, engineering, and construction references.
> > > >>
> > > >> you might also consider utilizing the keyline design system for
> layout.
> > > >>
> > > >> Here's a list of resources.  hope it helps.
> > > >>
> > > >> Soil conservation techniques for hillside farms
> > >
> > >
> http://www.nzdl.org/gsdlmod?e=d-00000-00---off-0hdl--00-0----0-10-0---0--->
> > 0d
> > >
> > >
> irect-10---4-------0-1l--11-en-50---20-home---00-0-1-00-0-0-11-1-0utfZz-8-
> > > 00>
> > > >> &cl=CL1.16.9&d=HASHbdde2fe3749493c1a0de2d.1&gt=2
> > > >>
> > > >> NRCS engineering field manual chapter 8 Terraces
> > >
> > >
> http://irrigationtoolbox.com/NEH/Part650_EngineeringFieldHandbook/EFH-CH08
> > > .p>
> > > >> df
> > > >>
> > > >> FAO Watershed mgmt field manual ch 9
> > > >> http://www.fao.org/docrep/006/ad083e/ad083e10.htm
> > > >>
> > > >> FAO Irrigation Water mgmt: Irrigation methods
> > > >> http://www.fao.org/docrep/s8684e/s8684e03.htm
> > > >>
> > > >> bench terrace design made simple
> > >
> > >
> http://tucson.ars.ag.gov/isco/isco12/VolumeIV/BenchTerraceDesignMadeSimple
> > > .p>
> > > >> df
> > > >>
> > > >> FAO Watershed mgmt field manual ch 6
> > > >> http://www.fao.org/docrep/006/ad083e/ad083e07.htm
> > > >>
> > > >> FAO Watershed mgmt field manual ch 8
> > > >> http://www.fao.org/docrep/006/ad083e/AD083e09.htm
> > > >>
> > > >> retaining wall manual for Keystone pavers
> > > >> http://www.keystonewalls.com/media/Literature/ConstManual.pdf
> > > >>
> > > >> Am Soc of Ag engineers terrace manual.  not able to access but would
> > >
> > > like to
> > >
> > > >>
> http://elibrary.asabe.org/abstract.asp?aid=41193&t=2&redir=&redirType=
> > > >>
> > > >> On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Jay Woods<woodsjaya@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >>> I'd like to try terracing on 5 acres of hillside here in Nevada.
> It is
> > >
> > > dry
> > >
> > > >>> country so the water table needs to be perched in each terrace. Do
> you
> > > >>> have
> > > >>> any sources on their construction? I remember seeing terracing used
> > >
> > > under
> > >
> > > >>> these conditions in the Mid-East.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Monday, January 06, 2014 12:24:21 PM Lawrence London wrote:
> > > >>>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 10:38 AM, Pete Gasper, Gasper Family
> Farm<
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> farmer1@gasperfarm.com>  wrote:
> > > >>>>> What kind of soil is underneath those fields? Here in America
> we'd
> > > >>>>> consider
> > > >>>>> that too steep to plant or do much anything with besides maybe
> > > >>>>> cattle
> > > >>>
> > > >>> or
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>> scrub timber. But then you can't run a combine with a 30' header
> > > >>>
> > > >>> across it
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>> and our soils of such geography tend to have stone a few inches
> > > >>>>> down.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> But
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>> I
> > > >>>>> wonder if human scale agriculture could radically expend food
> > > >>>
> > > >>> production
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>> here via methods like that.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>   The amount of planning that goes into the design, construction
> and
> > >
> > > soil
> > >
> > > >>>> preparation of those terraces is incredible. I read an article on
> a
> > > >>>> group
> > > >>>> that rebuilt some that had been damaged from erosion when the
> walls
> > > >>>> collapsed. I guess construction methods vary according to
> materials
> > > >>>> available on site but usually a lot of dry-laid stonework goes
> into
> > >
> > > the
> > >
> > > >>>> foundation of each terrace wall. Drainage and wall reinforcement
> is
> > >
> > > part
> > >
> > > >>> of
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> the process. I think some Asian rice terraces date back thousands
> of
> > > >>>
> > > >>> years.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> The steep terrain was all the people had to work with, little or
> no
> > >
> > > flat
> > >
> > > >>>> land. Here in the US the best farmland, prime, not marginal,
> should
> > > >>>> be
> > > >>>> protected from development and made available for agricultural
> use
> > >
> > > only
> > >
> > > >>>> employing natural methods and materials and permaculture.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> There is no reason that prime farm soil on hilly terrain could
> not be
> > > >>>> terraced and farmed productively. Depending on slope techniques
> using
> > > >>>> Yeoman Keyline plows to backhoes, to skid loaders to track loaters
> to
> > > >>>
> > > >>> track
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> hoes could be used. Water would be a big issue and impoundments
> would
> > >
> > > be
> > >
> > > >>>> necessary. I am talking about earthworks only, without any masonry
> > > >>>> components unless they are abundant on site and can be used in
> situ
> > > >>>> along
> > > >>>> with the soil used to build the earthworks. An in depth
> permaculture
> > > >>>> systems design could be created using polyculture, livestock,
> fish,
> > > >>>> crustaceans, crop diversity, post harvest methods that recycle
> > > >>>
> > > >>> byproducts,
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> chinampas, all ideas taken from certain terraced regions in the
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Phillipines
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> where permaculture is practiced traditionally and is the de facto
> > > >>>
> > > >>> standard
> > > >
>
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