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  • From: Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Fwd: Fukuoka and trees
  • Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 07:34:31 -0800 (PST)

Frances, I'm thinking of the windswept prairies where some of the apple trees
Johnny Appleseed planted are still alive, and still producing. Others never
did produce. I'm thinking of how strong that root stock is and how one could
think of future generations by casting seeds in a zone 4 area and letting
whatever grows, grow, so that the root stock, strong and fully adapted to the
environment, could be used for highly productive scions. I'm thinking, that
we need to take up less space, not more, with our food so it may be important
to have highly productive fruit trees - this is especially true in urban
areas, and commercial activity where land is limited. But if I had enough
land to give some over to whatever nature will provide, I would let some
things do what they will. Using root stock of natives is even better than
planting apples in the prairie, if there is something that is compatible. 

Koreen


________________________________
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 8:09 PM
Subject: [permaculture] Fwd: Fukuoka and trees

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [permaculture] Fukuoka and trees
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:12:46 -0700
From: frances and/or david <fdnokes@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>

Just reflecting a bit more on the Paul Wheaton interview with Larry
Korn, reflecting on a historic visit with Fukuoka.
The bit about tree pruning was really interesting, and I would love to
hear more on this topic. Perhaps some others who listened (or not) have
more to pitch in on this topic.  Basically, Fukuoka as a devotee of
nature, felt that pruning was unnatural and controlling, but that once
it was started (usually at the nursery), there was no turning back. A
natural tree will develop in a suitable pattern, often a whorl.
Fukuoka, bless him, did not mind getting up into a tree on a ladder,
and, if he couldn't reach every last apple, saw no harm done in leaving
them for the wildlife that could access them.  What a different world
this would be if more people thought like Fukuoka!  The mere fact that
he spent his time in observation of nature would create a whole
different ecosphere. I was interested in this comment about pruning.
Also interesting was his preference for growing fruit trees from seed.
Yes, some of them will bear fruit you can eat and others will bear fruit
that others will eat... (We clear off an apple tree every year, and
enjoy the apples in all kinds of ways, mostly juicing, blending, and
eating out of hand -- the owners of the tree see them as 'cooking
apples') And, if I'm not mistaken (but would welcome some
clarification), apparently, some of the apple seed grown trees will just
not bear any fruit at all?  At any rate, I am seeing that as part of a
larger parcel of land, maybe even as part of a windbreak scheme?, apple
trees from seed could be very beautiful. Anyone have anything to add on
this topic of trees -- the natural way... ? This takes us back in time,
and to a less demanding way of life, for ourselves and for the plants, too.
Frances

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Subject: [permaculture] Elephants in Permaculture
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I have some friends that volunteer at an elephant sanctuary, and when they
found out that I had an interest in sustainability, they asked if I could
give them some general advice on how to improve things at their foundation.
Although I cannot find much on Google that refers specifically to role of
elephants in permaculture, I have already started collating interesting
material, and I am now looking at it from a permaculture perspective. I have
a week to think about this before I go and look at their site, so I am
starting by doing the traditional inputs/outputs/behaviours diagram, and see
where that leads. It is quite interesting to do the same exercise for an
elephant that we have done so many times for a chicken.
In the meantime I am researching the wild foraging habits of the Asian
elephant, the possibility of using their strength as an on-site alternative
to earth moving and excavation equipment, and their general functions in
ecological systems. Obviously, any comments from other members would be very
useful, as I am well out of my depth here. These magnificent beasts are
going to be great if we have to gley a dam, although I am not sure how much
practical use an elephant tractor might be. ;-)


Chris




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